Caris LeVert: Two More Years!

[CavsKermit]

hes a two that plays the three bcz thats whats asked of him.....im fairly positive that if he was regulated to just playing shooting guard minutes all his numbers would be up


when you take into consideration leverts defensive rating you can make a strong argument that he is posting career numbers....said numbers as good or better than any other eastern conference two position bench player

if the cavs can get the starting sf before the trade deadline levert is an intrical part of this team.....jsut as intrical as a healthy love, rubio and okoro

you need 60-70 minutes off your bench in the playoffs....and caris levert is a very very large part of that

I don't see how LeVert playing 2 or 3 matters against teams like OKC, Memphis, NY, or Toronto. I mean he's been playing minutes at the 2 whenever one of Garland or Mitchell had been out. He's playing minutes at the 2 whenever he's in a rotation that doesn't have one of them in it. He played a good deal of minutes at the 2 last night.

If you see LeVert as intrical to the teams success, then we just have to agree to disagree. The only thing he really offers that isn't redundant with what we already have is defensive size at the wing. He's been solid injury insurance, but even the returns on that front have been waning as the season progresses.

 

[gambler]

we already disagreed when you said that levert wont be needed once rubio comes back.....i think some people are delusional thinking that the FO are counting on both rubio and wade being 25 minute guys...thats not happening....rubio is clearly inferior to levert at the two...i could care less about what +/- says

you just dont eliminate a 30 minute guy from your rotation for injury-prone guys...its like people saying trade love for hayward which is just moronic unless glibert is positive that he can buyout the fragile hornet 2023 contract and then its jsut money....which gilbert has plenty of...and i still dont trust gordon for the remainder of this year

 

[Mr. Orange]

Now I see why Pacers fans rejoiced at getting rid of this clown

 

[Bill Walton.]

i am going to go out on a limb here and say that there are probably not a lot of people calling for the heads of strus, white or connaghton as backups for the heat, celtics and bucks bcz they are legit bench players.....because at the end of teh day that is what caris is.....a bench player

and an absolute fukn legit bench player at that.....

First off, Derrick White isn’t even a bench guy for Boston. That would be Malcom Brogdon who would easily be the best player off our bench.

Secondly, Miami has multiple players capable of scoring. We’re talking about Butler, Bam, Herro, Oladipo. Strus is probably their 5th or 6th scoring option depending how you feel about Lowry who’s had an awful year.

Boston, Milwaukee, and Miami don’t complain about those players because they have multiple players who can create their own shot or facilitate for the rest of the offense. Pat Con isn’t anything special and you could argue Milwaukee’s bench isn’t great but look at ours.

LeVert is the best threat off the bench but is rendered useless with Garland and Mitchell on the floor. Derrick White has a higher usage rate playing alongside Brown and Tatum than Caris does with Garland and Mitchell. Caris’ mid range shooting has been absolutely pathetic this year. Is he a good defender? Sure, but how many defensive wings do you need on one team? We need a reliable scoring threat off the bench in this team. Kevin Love isn’t giving it to you and neither is LeVert. Let’s not scream that Caris is a damn good threat off the bench when he’s averaging 12.5 ppg on 41% shooting. That’s not good, not in todays nba and especially not against 2nd unit defense.

 

[Bill Walton.]

If you put Garland, Mictchell, and LeVert on the court together you're talking about LeVert averaging 8.11 points per 36 mins
Bam-Butler-Strus per 36? 18.45 points
Giannis-Jrue-PatCon per 36? 13.82
Brown-Tatum-White per 36? 12.11

First off, Derrick White isn’t even a bench guy for Boston. That would be Malcom Brogdon who would easily be the best player off our bench.

Secondly, Miami has multiple players capable of scoring. We’re talking about Butler, Bam, Herro, Oladipo. Strus is probably their 5th or 6th scoring option depending how you feel about Lowry who’s had an awful year.

Boston, Milwaukee, and Miami don’t complain about those players because they have multiple players who can create their own shot or facilitate for the rest of the offense. Pat Con isn’t anything special and you could argue Milwaukee’s bench isn’t great but look at ours.

LeVert is the best threat off the bench but is rendered useless with Garland and Mitchell on the floor. Derrick White has a higher usage rate playing alongside Brown and Tatum than Caris does with Garland and Mitchell. Caris’ mid range shooting has been absolutely pathetic this year. Is he a good defender? Sure, but how many defensive wings do you need on one team? We need a reliable scoring threat off the bench in this team. Kevin Love isn’t giving it to you and neither is LeVert. Let’s not scream that Caris is a damn good threat off the bench when he’s averaging 12.5 ppg on 41% shooting. That’s not good, not in todays nba and especially not against 2nd unit defense.

 

[gambler]

First off, Derrick White isn’t even a bench guy for Boston. That would be Malcom Brogdon who would easily be the best player off our bench.

Secondly, Miami has multiple players capable of scoring. We’re talking about Butler, Bam, Herro, Oladipo. Strus is probably their 5th or 6th scoring option depending how you feel about Lowry who’s had an awful year.

Boston, Milwaukee, and Miami don’t complain about those players because they have multiple players who can create their own shot or facilitate for the rest of the offense. Pat Con isn’t anything special and you could argue Milwaukee’s bench isn’t great but look at ours.

LeVert is the best threat off the bench but is rendered useless with Garland and Mitchell on the floor. Derrick White has a higher usage rate playing alongside Brown and Tatum than Caris does with Garland and Mitchell. Caris’ mid range shooting has been absolutely pathetic this year. Is he a good defender? Sure, but how many defensive wings do you need on one team? We need a reliable scoring threat off the bench in this team. Kevin Love isn’t giving it to you and neither is LeVert. Let’s not scream that Caris is a damn good threat off the bench when he’s averaging 12.5 ppg on 41% shooting. That’s not good, not in todays nba and especially not against 2nd unit defense.

white will be a bench player should williams revert to becoming a starter...derrick is having a career year statistaically....as are both brogdon and 37 year old horford.....what are the chances of all three of these established guys...inexplicably....continuing putting up career numbers in april?...horford and brogdon 5+ percentage points better at the three than their career averages .

i dont know.....like zero?

so now you take those averages back to their career numbers....25 minute guys.....how many of those celtic wins turn into losses?

maybe the same amount of losses the cavs wouldve had as wins since having to endure a span of over one month with no wade, love or the current version of okoro....both okoro and love for over a month at times shooting half of their normal attempts.

imo, should the cavs not get a three at the deadline, they are fukd regardless of what happens with love, wade and okoro ....but you can make an argument that if they get a bang average starting small forward.....and a healthy love, rubio wade and the current version of okoro all come together i see no problems with this team in april....

none

zero

its like some people here dont have access to espn....

kevin loves attempts per game the last two months have gone down to 6.5.....last year he was at almost 11 and scoring close to twice as many points...you cant ignore that...difference between winning and losing

i dont think too much of dean wade but when you have nobody to take his place other than some undrafted guy that goes by the name of lamar stevens who has the basketball IQ of a grapefruit then yeah.....missing dean wade is a huge loss.

relax man.....there is a good chance that dean wade is only going to be playing 10 minutes a game....lamar zero....once the cavs get another player....

be happy that rubio could very well be an a-level 12 minute player once the playoff starts in addition to okoro being another 12 minute a'level player.....thats how deep the cavs bench is should they all get healthy and they grab the bang-average three at the deadline

ffs man.....dean wade as your 10th guy off the bench?......

thats a deep-ass basketball team

 

[CavsKermit]

white will be a bench player should williams revert to becoming a starter...derrick is having a career year statistaically....as are both brogdon and 37 year old horford.....what are the chances of all three of these established guys...inexplicably....continuing putting up career numbers in april?...horford and brogdon 5+ percentage points better at the three than their career averages .

i dont know.....like zero?

so now you take those averages back to their career numbers....25 minute guys.....how many of those celtic wins turn into losses?

maybe the same amount of losses the cavs wouldve had as wins since having to endure a span of over one month with no wade, love or the current version of okoro....both okoro and love for over a month at times shooting half of their normal attempts.

imo, should the cavs not get a three at the deadline, they are fukd regardless of what happens with love, wade and okoro ....but you can make an argument that if they get a bang average starting small forward.....and a healthy love, rubio wade and the current version of okoro all come together i see no problems with this team in april....

none

zero

its like some people here dont have access to espn....

kevin loves attempts per game the last two months have gone down to 6.5.....last year he was at almost 11 and scoring close to twice as many points...you cant ignore that...difference between winning and losing

i dont think too much of dean wade but when you have nobody to take his place other than some undrafted guy that goes by the name of lamar stevens who has the basketball IQ of a grapefruit then yeah.....missing dean wade is a huge loss.

relax man.....there is a good chance that dean wade is only going to be playing 10 minutes a game....lamar zero....once the cavs get another player....

be happy that rubio could very well be an a-level 12 minute player once the playoff starts in addition to okoro being another 12 minute a'level player.....thats how deep the cavs bench is should they all get healthy and they grab the bang-average three at the deadline

ffs man.....dean wade as your 10th guy off the bench?......

thats a deep-ass basketball team

If healthy, Dean Wade should start and I really hope everyone in the Cavs organization sees it that way. All of Garland, Mitchell, Mobley, and Allen need more space on the floor to operate and Wade is the only SF candidate who is likely to provide it.

 

[gambler]

If healthy, Dean Wade should start and I really hope everyone in the Cavs organization sees it that way. All of Garland, Mitchell, Mobley, and Allen need more space on the floor to operate and Wade is the only SF candidate who is likely to provide it.

as talented as the other four guys are(did anyone else notice how dg was tooth and nail with SGA the other night) you cant go the ecf with some injury-prone undrafted guy like dean wade as your starting three....


and thats why the cavs are going to pull the trigger at the trade deadline....because you dont give up all those picks and lauri for two shots at the ecf....its all three years....they are going to take back a bad contract.....its all about money right now.

 

[CavsKermit]

as talented as the other four guys are(did anyone else notice how dg was tooth and nail with SGA the other night) you cant go the ecf with some injury-prone undrafted guy like dean wade as your starting three....


and thats why the cavs are going to pull the trigger at the trade deadline....because you dont give up all those picks and lauri for two shots at the ecf....its all three years....they are going to take back a bad contract.....its all about money right now.

I don't think there's a player who's going to be made available, for what the Cavs have to offer, that will be a better option than Wade.

 

[gambler]

I don't think there's a player who's going to be made available, for what the Cavs have to offer, that will be a better option than Wade.

theyre too close and theyve paid too much to get here.....it could be a three-team where gilbert will eat some money...even hardaways contract is not that bad if he can stay healthy and they have to buy him out of his final year....with the penalty they lose maybe 25mm the last year but they already got that and more with donovan at 33mm per year

i would be fukn amazed if nothing gets done becasue theyre not getting to the ecf with this team even if love, rubio and okoro all play to last years numbers.

if so, then mtichells deal is a two year and not three....like renting an ocean-view aprtment for three years at two thirds the market price only to find out later after youve moved in that its only a two year rental with an owner option on the third

different deal


hardaway was coming off a broken foot but you look at dec/jan....thats all the cavs need...an entirely different basketball team wiht that version of hardaway starting at the three with levert and okoro behind him with 20-25 minutes

thats at least as good if not better than tobias and thybulle

 

[Bill Walton.]

First off, Derrick White isn’t even a bench guy for Boston. That would be Malcom Brogdon who would easily be the best player off our bench.

Secondly, Miami has multiple players capable of scoring. We’re talking about Butler, Bam, Herro, Oladipo. Strus is probably their 5th or 6th scoring option depending how you feel about Lowry who’s had an awful year.

Boston, Milwaukee, and Miami don’t complain about those players because they have multiple players who can create their own shot or facilitate for the rest of the offense. Pat Con isn’t anything special and you could argue Milwaukee’s bench isn’t great but look at ours.

LeVert is the best threat off the bench but is rendered useless with Garland and Mitchell on the floor. Derrick White has a higher usage rate playing alongside Brown and Tatum than Caris does with Garland and Mitchell. Caris’ mid range shooting has been absolutely pathetic this year. Is he a good defender? Sure, but how many defensive wings do you need on one team? We need a reliable scoring threat off the bench in this team. Kevin Love isn’t giving it to you and neither is LeVert. Let’s not scream that Caris is a damn good threat off the bench when he’s averaging 12.5 ppg on 41% shooting. That’s not good, not in todays nba and especially not against 2nd unit defense.

white will be a bench player should williams revert to becoming a starter...derrick is having a career year statistaically....as are both brogdon and 37 year old horford.....what are the chances of all three of these established guys...inexplicably....continuing putting up career numbers in april?...horford and brogdon 5+ percentage points better at the three than their career averages .

i dont know.....like zero?

so now you take those averages back to their career numbers....25 minute guys.....how many of those celtic wins turn into losses?

maybe the same amount of losses the cavs wouldve had as wins since having to endure a span of over one month with no wade, love or the current version of okoro....both okoro and love for over a month at times shooting half of their normal attempts.

imo, should the cavs not get a three at the deadline, they are fukd regardless of what happens with love, wade and okoro ....but you can make an argument that if they get a bang average starting small forward.....and a healthy love, rubio wade and the current version of okoro all come together i see no problems with this team in april....

none

zero

its like some people here dont have access to espn....

kevin loves attempts per game the last two months have gone down to 6.5.....last year he was at almost 11 and scoring close to twice as many points...you cant ignore that...difference between winning and losing

i dont think too much of dean wade but when you have nobody to take his place other than some undrafted guy that goes by the name of lamar stevens who has the basketball IQ of a grapefruit then yeah.....missing dean wade is a huge loss.

relax man.....there is a good chance that dean wade is only going to be playing 10 minutes a game....lamar zero....once the cavs get another player....

be happy that rubio could very well be an a-level 12 minute player once the playoff starts in addition to okoro being another 12 minute a'level player.....thats how deep the cavs bench is should they all get healthy and they grab the bang-average three at the deadline

ffs man.....dean wade as your 10th guy off the bench?......

thats a deep-ass basketball team

first off, I wanna say im trying to have a civil conversation about basketball and i am not trying to insult you, your opinions, or your intelligence.

im looking at advanced statistics for the most part and not ESPN.

I see Kevin Love's usage rate is way down this year.. The most likely reason for that is because of the addition of Donovan Mitchell. Staggering of DG and Mitchell is going to lower Love's usage rate dramatically. I think we both can agree that Kevin Love's shooting has been awful this year.

I dont really understand your argument for Horford since all of his numbers are lower this year besides 3PT%, but he shot around the same % his 2nd year in Boston over a 72 game sample. I think that it's safe to say there's a non zero chance that continues. I do agree the jump in his % is large compared to his career avg, but you could easily argue that players on the back end of their career tend to improve from beyond the arc since the other facets of their game tend to decline.

Derrick White and Malcom Brogdon having good shooting years can easily be attributed to playing alongside Brown and Tatum. Comparing Brogdon's 3PT% in his first three years with Giannis, the numbers are a lot better than his time with Indiana. And more on par with his time with the Celtics.

The cavs are 28th in bench offensive rating. I think we need more scoring options, and relying on the shell of Kevin Love and Caris LeDirt isn't working.

 

[gambler]

first off, I wanna say im trying to have a civil conversation about basketball and i am not trying to insult you, your opinions, or your intelligence.

im looking at advanced statistics for the most part and not ESPN.

I see Kevin Love's usage rate is way down this year.. The most likely reason for that is because of the addition of Donovan Mitchell. Staggering of DG and Mitchell is going to lower Love's usage rate dramatically. I think we both can agree that Kevin Love's shooting has been awful this year.

I dont really understand your argument for Horford since all of his numbers are lower this year besides 3PT%, but he shot around the same % his 2nd year in Boston over a 72 game sample. I think that it's safe to say there's a non zero chance that continues. I do agree the jump in his % is large compared to his career avg, but you could easily argue that players on the back end of their career tend to improve from beyond the arc since the other facets of their game tend to decline.

Derrick White and Malcom Brogdon having good shooting years can easily be attributed to playing alongside Brown and Tatum. Comparing Brogdon's 3PT% in his first three years with Giannis, the numbers are a lot better than his time with Indiana. And more on par with his time with the Celtics.

The cavs are 28th in bench offensive rating. I think we need more scoring options, and relying on the shell of Kevin Love and Caris LeDirt isn't working.

valid points playing alongside both brown and tatum RE the increased efficiency.

i still stand by the fact that the cavs bench is underrated bcz of injuries......you cant lose love, wade and have that offensively shit version of okoro and nobody stevens and compare that team to the one they could be when healthy

regardless....we shall find out in about a month if i am right after they pick up a three and should love and wade remain healthy as okoro continues to hit his shot.

i dont remember if it was wham or randolph who recently came out and agreed with what i am saying{sans the addition of a SF}....that the cavs offense could explode here in the very near future.

my back of the napkin goes like this....

mitchell/dg 50
mobely/JA 25
hardawy 15
love 10
caris 10
rubio/okoro 10


120 points offense
110 points defense
+10 ......60 win team


you cant argue that is not a possibility...probability ok....a possiblity no...just no

theyre fukn close...they have to get healthy and they have to peak in april...two months is more than enough time

 

[Cement]

Such a bad trade.

To give up a first rounder + the first pick of last year's 2nd round (which turned into Andrew Nembhard) is a big L.

Last night demonstrated we don't need this guy at all.

 

[daytripper]

Such a bad trade.

To give up a first rounder + the first pick of last year's 2nd round (which turned into Andrew Nembhard) is a big L.

Last night demonstrated we don't need this guy at all.

I hate to pile on but the Cavs also gave up the Houston SRP in the '23 draft which should end up either 31/32 which is basically another FRP. Really awful deal by Koby when you consider the Clips got Powell and Covington, players that could actually help this squad, for expirings at the deadline last year. Ouch. For some reason they really overvalued LeVert and it seemed like a panic trade from day one in reaction to the Rubio injury.

 

[Dr No]

I hate to pile on but the Cavs also gave up the Houston SRP in the '23 draft which should end up either 31/32 which is basically another FRP. Really awful deal by Koby when you consider the Clips got Powell and Covington, players that could actually help this squad, for expirings at the deadline last year. Ouch. For some reason they really overvalued LeVert and it seemed like a panic trade from day one in reaction to the Rubio injury.

I think that’s exactly what it was. We were in the playoff hunt and wanted to stay there. LeVert looked like an answer. It wasn’t a horrible idea, but more people went down and there was no salvaging the end of last season. This year, he hasn’t been entirely bad, but especially with Rubio now available to run the second unit, he’s just not needed. Cedi gives us a similar player at a fraction of the cost. To give him credit, he’s versatile and that is always nice to have on your roster. But with everyone healthy, I’d rather put that nearly 19 million somewhere else.

Related - we had nearly 50 million on the bench last night and didn’t miss them one bit. Both contracts expire this year.