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Cleveland Browns 2021 Regular Season: RIP

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Isn’t an opinion on a message board entirely subjective analysis by non glorified fans?

I mean not to be rude but I’ll take PFF grades over any single one of your opinions any day of the week. They literally view every single play and study each player to do so.
 
Triplethreat said:
Isn’t an opinion on a message board entirely subjective analysis by non glorified fans?

I mean not to be rude but I’ll take PFF grades over any single one of your opinions any day of the week. They literally view every single play and study each player to do so.
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This hits hard. I thought we were cool?
 
Douglar said:
Dorsey hit on the Landry trade, but the OBJ trade has at best been a mixed bag. Is OBJ going to be more valuable than Dexter Lawrence and Peppers this season? I hope so, but I'm not holding my breath. Traded up for Callaway? Big wiff. And the fact that Dorsey drafted Corbett ahead of Chubb is a big question mark on what was going on in the player evaluation room.
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I've always suspected that we actually had Chubb rated ahead of Corbett -- we had a glaring need at RB and there were rumors that our first target was actually Penny, who got picked up by Seattle late in the 1st round. We had #33 and #35 that year, with the Giants sandwiched in between at #34. After Gettleman took Barkley #2 overall, there was no way in hell that he was going to take Chubb, not to mention that OL was a big need for them and they ended up taking an interior OL at #34. If Dorsey identified Corbett and Chubb as his targets for the two second round picks, it made all the sense in the world to take Corbett first, and then Chubb second. Of course, there was always the off-chance that a team traded up to #34 for Chubb, but Gettleman had a track record of never trading down from high picks.

Also related, the Osweiler trade is always credited with getting us that #35 pick which turned into Chubb, but for the reasons mentioned above, I think we'd have taken Chubb at #33 if we didn't also have #35. While I'd still do that Osweiler trade ten times out of ten, I believe that trade actually led to Corbett, not Chubb.
 
Vee-Rex said:
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Jesus that’s rough. Offense humming along at a top 10 or even top 5 clip, defense performing horrendously so far. It’s early, but the latter needs to be fixed for any hope of a deep playoff push.
 
No reason the defense shouldn’t improve this season with all the talent we brought in. Unless the DC is not doing his job and putting the guys in position to succeed.
 
Triplethreat said:
Isn’t an opinion on a message board entirely subjective analysis by non glorified fans?

I mean not to be rude but I’ll take PFF grades over any single one of your opinions any day of the week. They literally view every single play and study each player to do so.
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Doesn't that depend upon the quality of the individual opinion? How well reasoned it is, other more objective stats used in support, etc..? I agree that a lot of opinions aren't well-supported or well-reasoned, but others are. And I'm guessing PFF isn't always having multiple guys viewing every single play either, so in the end, it may very well be just one guy's opinion on which PFF is relying. There also isn't any "check" on whether or not a particular PFF opinion is correct, so it isn't a process of them refining their methods based on feedback versus an objective standard. So, if one reviewer's evaluations tend to be biased or simply wrong, there isn't any way to know that.

I'm not saying that PFF is of no value, or that in general, it isn't more reliable than the opinion of a random fan. I'm saying that PFF is not always going to be more valid that every opinion made by every other fan.
 
The Human Q-Tip said:
Doesn't that depend upon the quality of the individual opinion? How well reasoned it is, other more objective stats used in support, etc..? I agree that a lot of opinions aren't well-supported or well-reasoned, but others are. And I'm guessing PFF isn't always having multiple guys viewing every single play either, so in the end, it may very well be just one guy's opinion on which PFF is relying. There also isn't any "check" on whether or not a particular PFF opinion is correct, so it isn't a process of them refining their methods based on feedback versus an objective standard. So, if one reviewer's evaluations tend to be biased or simply wrong, there isn't any way to know that.

I'm not saying that PFF is of no value, or that in general, it isn't more reliable than the opinion of a random fan. I'm saying that PFF is not always going to be more valid that every opinion made by every other fan.
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If you averaged out ALL message board posters vs PFF as a whole, he’s got a damn good point.

If we rated PFF at a 7.5, I think the average fan is a 4.

And elpresador is a 9.

 
The Human Q-Tip said:
Doesn't that depend upon the quality of the individual opinion? How well reasoned it is, other more objective stats used in support, etc..? I agree that a lot of opinions aren't well-supported or well-reasoned, but others are. And I'm guessing PFF isn't always having multiple guys viewing every single play either, so in the end, it may very well be just one guy's opinion on which PFF is relying. There also isn't any "check" on whether or not a particular PFF opinion is correct, so it isn't a process of them refining their methods based on feedback versus an objective standard. So, if one reviewer's evaluations tend to be biased or simply wrong, there isn't any way to know that.

I'm not saying that PFF is of no value, or that in general, it isn't more reliable than the opinion of a random fan. I'm saying that PFF is not always going to be more valid that every opinion made by every other fan.
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I agree with the gist of it--that an appeal to authority (PFF) should be pushed back against. Just because they put in more work doesn't mean they're right, and they should be called out when they aren't.

However, I do believe that last time we had this discussion in the off-season and someone posted how PFF does their scores, that each play is reviewed twice--or that there was at least one check in there.
 
The Oi said:
If you averaged out ALL message board posters vs PFF as a whole, he’s got a damn good point.
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And that's an even better point. If someone does an analysis on a particular player here, and then a bunch of other folks jump in with their input, and there is a good back and forth, you're talking about a lot more eyes on particular player than PFF ever gets.

My biggest concern with PFF isn't their analysis of one-on-one matchups, but rather how scheme/play calling may make a huge difference in determine who did well, and who did poorly, on a particular play. And I don't think PFF has any particular advantage over decent fans at determining that. They may even be worse at it because of so few eyes watching each play/rep.
 
The Human Q-Tip said:
And that's an even better point. If someone does an analysis on a particular player here, and then a bunch of other folks jump in with their input, and there is a good back and forth, you're talking about a lot more eyes on particular player than PFF ever gets.
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Yeah, but if you average everything out, that's like 45,000 jigo posts weighing it down.

I'm guessing PFF's accuracy on NFL players would be higher, but our EPA* would blow theirs away.

* = Expected Penis-jokes Added
 
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