Cleveland Browns 2022 off-season thread

[DJTJ]

Bengals, Packers, Colts, Rams are the least penalized and they're all in.

It's ridiculous to say that drive killing penalties, and penalties that keep the defense on the field instead of getting off the field against tough offenses don't matter. Especially in games that came down to a few points difference. Are you that much of a shill for KS?

You realize that showing teams in who are highly penalized and teams that are in that aren’t shows you that penalties don’t really matter, right?

Like you… just backed up into showing how they overrated as a measure of success/failure.

 

[buzzdog]

You realize that showing teams in who are highly penalized and teams that are in that aren’t shows you that penalties don’t really matter, right?

Like you… just backed up into showing how they overrated as a measure of success/failure.

It's just intrinsic and common sense that penalties actually do matter. If you commit penalties you have to compensate for lost downs, yardage, lost favorable situations.

How can you say anything different with a straight face?

 

[Kiddo]

If Watson has his legal issues resolved i'd make them an offer.

Baker
Jed Wills
2022 1st Round Pick
2023 2nd Round Pick

 

[Vee-Rex]

Penalties are overrated IMO.

Dallas leads the league in penalties and they’re 11-5. Las Vegas is second and they're 9-8. Buffalo is 4th. Arizona is 6th.

The Giants and Falcons and Football Team and Broncos are four of the least penalized teams and they're all missing the playoffs.

That's kind of like saying, "QB Interceptions are overrated. Rams and Bills are 2nd and 3rd and they're both playoff teams, perhaps even Super Bowl contenders. Bengals and Titans are tied for 5th and they're division leaders, Raiders and Chargers are also 5th and playing to make the playoffs"

Not a great argument to support your opinion.

Penalties obviously don't impact a team as much as many other factors (like overall coaching, talent, QB, etc...) but they certainly do have meaning and you don't want to be a heavily penalized team.

 

[Vee-Rex]

If Watson has his legal issues resolved i'd make them an offer.

Baker
Jed Wills
2022 1st Round Pick
2023 2nd Round Pick

They'd laugh in your face with that offer.

 

[Damage]

All add to it

Stefanski is right behind Baker in the disappointment column this year. This team is extremely undisciplined, and both years he has been coach have been in the bottom 5 of penalties. He seems to know when to go for it on 4th, but the plays being dialed up are at best head scratches. If Berry ultimately decides to keep Stefanski, there should be an ultimatum to turn over the offense to a coordinator. This includes both scheme and play calling duties. It sounds like AVP maybe interviewing for other jobs anyway, so this would be a chance to bring in someone new.

Also Berry absolutely has to find a kicker. The browns have gone through 5 kickers in the last 2 years, and its cost them at least 2 if not 3 games this year.

What the fuck is this shit?

And also we aren't the only team in the NFL w Kicker issues. They don't grow on trees and there's a reason why there are like 4 guys who have stuck around and everyone else just kinda sucks

 

[Smooth]

KS needs to figure out how to instill discipline on this team. Aren't we at or near the top in most penalized? You can go on about how even slightly better QB play would have us in the playoffs. I can look back at all the mind numbing, crippling penalties that came at the worst moments, robbed first downs from us, gave first downs to opponents keeping our defense on the field. Over and over, game after game if you eliminated even a third of those penalties we'd be in the playoffs, shitty QB play or not.

Most people will say that ultimately falls on the head coach. KS is over his head, and he just needs to focus on being head coach.

Browns were 4th in total penalties this year with 130.. They were 5th in yards against with 989...

Browns were 9th in total penalties last year with 118.. They were in 7th in yards against with 915..

Did you feel like this last year? If not, what has changed?

The problem this year is the offense wasn't able to overcome mistakes or penalties like they were last year... This year's team had a much smaller margin for error, which is when things like penalties really start to hurt more..

 

[Damage]

Penalties are overrated IMO.

Dallas leads the league in penalties and they’re 11-5. Las Vegas is second and they're 9-8. Buffalo is 4th. Arizona is 6th.

The Giants and Falcons and Football Team and Broncos are four of the least penalized teams and they're all missing the playoffs.

7 of the top 10 pre-snap penalized teams missed playoffs (Detroit #1, Browns #2), which shows a complete lack of discipline. I'm okay in principle with aggressive penalties but pre-snap bullshit is inexcusable, playoff or no playoff team.

 

[PIP]

If Watson has his legal issues resolved i'd make them an offer.

Baker
Jed Wills
2022 1st Round Pick
2023 2nd Round Pick

Baker
Chubb
JOK
Myles
2022 1st
2022 2nd
2023 1st

for Watson

 

[buzzdog]

Browns were 4th in total penalties this year with 130.. They were 5th in yards against with 989...

Browns were 9th in total penalties last year with 118.. They were in 7th in yards against with 915..

Did you feel like this last year? If not, what has changed?

The problem this year is the offense wasn't able to overcome mistakes or penalties like they were last year... This year's team had a much smaller margin for error, which is when things like penalties really start to hurt more..

I can agree with your point. Yes I thought we were undisciplined regarding penalties last year as well. Being well disciplined and committing fewer penalties can only improve a team's chances of winning, period. If they lose in spite of succeeding with fewer penalties then they have other issues.

I'm not saying the Browns don't have other issues, far from it. But we have huge room for improvement with overall team discipline and this is ideed something KS could and should address.

 

[bob2the2nd]

Seen a lot of posts about the Browns FO needing to "figure out" the kicker position. I don't necessarily disagree, but worth noting:

Only 13 teams have had the same kicker dating back to 2019. I think teams are very quick to move on from kickers after a rough game or two in today's NFL. Especially now after the extra point has been moved back

1. Seahawks, Jason Myers, since 2019. Career 84.7%.

• Only 72.7% in 2021

2. Falcons- Younghoe Koo, since 2019- Career 89.8%
3. Raiders- Daniel Carson, since 2018- Career 86.7%
4. Dolphins- Jason Sanders, since 2018- Career 83.1%

• 2 seasons over 90%, 2 seasons under 80%. only 72.4% in 2021

5. 49ers- Robbie Gould, since 2017. Career 86.5%

• Only 23-31 (74.2%) back in 2019. 84% since

6. Texans- Ka'imi Fairbairn, since 2017. Career 83.7%

• Only 77.8% in 2021

7. Eagles- Jake Elliott, since 2017Career 84.1%.

• Only 73.7% in 2020. Bounced back with 90.3% in 2021

8. Chiefs- Harrison Butker, since 2017. Career 90%
9. Saints- Will Lutz, since 2020. Career 86.6%

• Missed 2021 with injury

10. Steelers- Chris Boswell, since 2015. Career 88.2%.

• Only 13-20 (65%) back in 2018. 92% since

11. Broncos- Brandon McManus, since 2014. Career 81.9%

• 91% career under 50

12. Ravens- Justin Tucker, since 2012. Career 91%
13. Packers- Mason Crosby, since 2007. Career 81.1%

• Under 80% 5 of his first 6 seasons

The issue is even though browns have actually had some spotted success finding kickers, they have still been through 4 kickers in the last 2 years and their kicking woes cost them 2+ wins this year (and a chance at a tie of 3rd in the @Baltimore game). It really looked like early in the season chase mclaughlin was going to be the guy, but has completely fallen apart. In his first 9 games he had 15 attempts and he hit 13. Pretty damn good. But in his last 6 games he has only attempted 6 FG attempts and only connected on 2 of them. I could see your argument about Cody Parkley from last year, even though his biggest claim to fame is missing a field goal in the playoffs. He couldnt hit a damn thing over 45 yards, but at least he was still hitting the kicks he took. So its one of those, I think they are trying its just costing the team wins by not finding that guy.

 

[bob2the2nd]

Browns were 4th in total penalties this year with 130.. They were 5th in yards against with 989...

Browns were 9th in total penalties last year with 118.. They were in 7th in yards against with 915..

Did you feel like this last year? If not, what has changed?

The problem this year is the offense wasn't able to overcome mistakes or penalties like they were last year... This year's team had a much smaller margin for error, which is when things like penalties really start to hurt more..

Yes it was absolutely an issue last year. However KS was a rookie head coach and the expectation is that he would look at where his team needed correction and he would make those corrections

Instead they got worse

 

[CBBI]

their kicking woes cost them 2+ wins this year

This is absolutely false.

 

[bob2the2nd]

This is absolutely false.

Sorry you are correct it is only 2 wins kicking cost the team. I thought in the baltimore game browns would have had a chance to tie it if Chase hadnt missed his early FG.

Week 15 against LV. Chase misses FG at end of first half 47 yarder. Browns lose by 2.

Week 16 GB. Browns kicker misses PAT of first TD drive, Second TD drive browns forced to go for it and dont get it. 2 points that would have been easily made. Instead of browns driving to try and come back from behind on final drive they are trying to come back to win. Browns lose by 2.

 

[DJTJ]

It's just intrinsic and common sense that penalties actually do matter. If you commit penalties you have to compensate for lost downs, yardage, lost favorable situations.

How can you say anything different with a straight face?

You yourself see statistics that show teams that are successful both committing a ton of penalties and a lack there of.

Your argument overlooks that teams, year in and year out, overcome it with little issue. The original post references that they are overrated. That’s clearly accurate given they have no direct correlation to success one way or the other.