Day 1 Draft Thread [Rounds: 1]

[Triple-S]

As a Buckeye fan, the Buckeye homers that can't look past that a dude played college ball at a rival school but can still help out our professional football team really Piss me off... such an extreme form of homerism... just saying.


Let's move past it for fucks sake. Go Browns.

Thom Darden was a pro bowler for us, and helped the Browns on defense during the Kardiac Kid years.

Leroy Hoard was beloved by Browns fans for his style of running the ball back in the day.

Steve Everitt actually got fined for wearing a Browns bandanna in '96 as a form of protest against the move.

It's just a lame ass excuse to me. I like Ohio State, and I side with them in the OSU-UM game for sure, but my degree says "KENT STATE UNIVERSITY" on it.

I grew up with a lot of idiots in Akron-Canton who would flock to the steelers with the sort of excuses I'd see from Buckeye/"HE'S FROM OHIO"-type homers.

I like the pick. He's got a great attitude and he just seems crazy athletic. I don't give a shit what's on the scrap of paper he got from someone. I care that he wants to help my team no longer be a laughing stock.

 

[DJTJ]

Just for shits and giggles.. what is Ed Reeds height and weight.. or even Tj ward for that matter?

I listed these exact players multiple pages ago and it went no where.

 

[Smooth]

I think the problem have with Peppers, other than him being a mortal enemy of the team most of this board cheers for, is they can't "box" him in a position or a role... He's not a FS, he's not a SS, he's not a LB, he's not a corner... Because he doesn't have a defined, set-in-stone role, people can't grasp the abstract that is having value on a defense because you can do multiple things..

The NFL is changing in a lot of ways the NBA has changed: to a more free-flowing game that requires players to do a lot more... Just think we're seeing away of the back-down big men, half-court game to more free-flowing, pick-and-roll, grab-and-go offense, we're seeing teams shifting away from the ground-and-pound to shotgun, multiple offenses that are airing it out... Just like big men now need to be versatile, are athletic and defend the P&R, you just don't have a coverage safety and a box safety... You need guys who can play all 3 days, in all situations...

Karl Joseph, Keanu Neal, Deone Bucannon, Tyran Mathieu, Byron Jones, Su'a Cravens...

These are the new breed of safeties, guys who can seamlessly blend between positions and be able to play in multiple spots, in multiple looks...

Peppers gives this defense tremendous versatility: he basically allows you to keep him on field on all downs and your base defense is pretty similar to your nickel defense, which you're in 60% of the time anyway... The Browns had a terrible time covering tight ends last year and someone like Peppers can help..

The other thing I like about this and the Garrett pick: the Browns have long lacked athleticism and playmakers on defense... Having top-notch athletes who can make game changing plays, is crucial.. The Browns didn't have enough guys who could make plays and now they have that...

P.S. -- I feel so much better drafting Njoku and knowing Al Saunders is on the coaching staff...

 

[gijimbo]

Wait... so I've been telling you the reason he works here is because he fits a role perfectly, and you link me to a paragraph explaining EXACTLY why he'd work here... that did what exactly?

PFF also states that it's difficult to project because he's athletic enough to be a FS, he didn't show those flashes... because he played at the LOS. This is an absolute headache.

He's an in the box strong safety who is much more athletic than most in the box safeties. That is his position. It's carved in stone.

Malik Hooker is a one dimensional safety. He's arguably the best safety playing over the top. That's it. He can't play corner. He can't play at the line. He's going to play CF. But.. that's not specialized. He'll be great.

You assume I wanted Hooker? Interesting. I'm done with it, buddy. Do not quote me again.

Having you say all this makes me confident that the Browns made a great draft choice tonight with Peppers. I'll keep a close eye on the major impact he makes this year.

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

I have more of a problem spending a 1st round pick on a box safety than where Peppers went to school.

If we wanted a great run defender and a chess piece to move around why not sign Jonathan Cyprien, who ended up signing with Tennessee for a lot less than what his play last year dictated.

For numbers; Cyprien was PFF's 7th best safety overall, and the best safety in the entire NFL against the run. He led all safeties in run stops (27) and tied with Tony Jefferson for most tackles against the run (51).

So why did Jacksonville let him walk, and how did Tennessee sign him to a contract that only makes him the 26th highest paid safety in the league?

He's a liability in coverage. It sounds great in theory to have a roving chess piece, a knight you can move around and create mismatches with.

That is until Andrew Luck and Tom Brady put the ball in the air 40+ times a game.

And that's my problem with Peppers. He's a complete liability in coverage. If you're going to play safety in the NFL today, you better be able to guard slot pass catchers man-to-man, or be able to cover a lot of ground as a center fielder. Peppers does neither.

Hopefully I'm wrong, and Peppers develops into a competent DB that doesn't get eaten alive by even mediocre pro QBs like Andy Dalton and Joe Flacco.

I just don't see that happening, regardless of where he went to school.

Excellent post....

That's exactly what I would say if I wasn't aware that you're an OSU fan

 

[DJTJ]

You assume I wanted Hooker? Interesting. I'm done with it, buddy. Do not quote me again.

Having you say all this makes me confident that the Browns made a great draft choice tonight with Peppers. I'll keep a close eye on the major impact he makes this year.

Actually didn't say you wanted Hooker. But Browns twitter did. This board did. And the same people who wanted Hooker, hated Peppers. Why? Willing to overlook one one dimensional player for another?

 

[Randolphkeys]

@Smooth Al Saunders is the best in the business at coaching up receivers, has been for decades, and the Browns need to draft passing weapons while we have him under contract.

 

[gijimbo]

Actually didn't say you wanted Hooker. But Browns twitter did. This board did. And the same people who wanted Hooker, hated Peppers. Why? Willing to overlook one one dimensional player for another?

Asked you not to quote me again. We have beaten this argument to death and no one wants to read it.

Pm me and I'll gladly continue the discussion.

Although, IMO, it is pointless. You are very confident in Peppers' ability as a pro and I am not.

If he was playing against college offensive linemen and college running backs (who rarely are good blockers), i would love to have him on my team. In the NFL, I'm afraid it will be too easy to scheme against him.

If we got Peppers later in the draft, I probably wouldn't be too upset with it. At 25, I thought it was a reach.

Is it fair for me to not want a Cyprien-type player at 25?

 

[DJTJ]

@Smooth Al Saunders cis the best in the business at coaching up receivers, and the Browns need to draft passing weapons while we have him under contract.

I like Njoku. I heard 11% drop rate, and then I look at the tape.

That counter bootleg TE dump they run frequently is the ideal play for him.

 

[gijimbo]

Also from PFF:

"Stats to know: Through three years at Michigan he gave up 58 receptions on 93 targets and broke up six passes with no interceptions when the primary defender."

If he didn't have good coverage skills in college, how is he going to do against NFL players?

He never was asked to guard the other team's best receiver in college, he was a linebacker most of the time at UM.

He did play safety as well, but he was a gadget in college just like he will be in the NFL.

Pro teams will find your weaknesses, I think it would be easy to do that against him.

Not every player is perfect and yes, he could have a role and could succeed as a player, just wouldn't have been my choice at 25.

I see a big learning curve for him, which could be fine with the Browns. Except who knows who our coach will be two years from now.

 

[CBBI]

Athleticism. Athleticism. Athleticism.

One thing the Browns definitely did today was give themselves a big boost of speed and explosiveness on both sides of the ball.

Garrett has all-pro potential. Should be a nice cornerstone player on the defense. I think Gregg Williams will likely be all over him from the jump about these effort concerns.

Peppers was an interesting pick. I personally didn't think he was a 1st rounder, but he was firmly in that 30-45 range. His success in the NFL will hinge on Williams' ability to put him in the best position to succeed. To me, that's as an in-the-box strong safety. Let him come down hill and make plays against the run and on the blitz.

Njoku is a baby just 20 years old, but could be an absolute monster in time.

 

[buzzdog]

I think the problem have with Peppers, other than him being a mortal enemy of the team most of this board cheers for, is they can't "box" him in a position or a role... He's not a FS, he's not a SS, he's not a LB, he's not a corner... Because he doesn't have a defined, set-in-stone role, people can't grasp the abstract that is having value on a defense because you can do multiple things..

The NFL is changing in a lot of ways the NBA has changed: to a more free-flowing game that requires players to do a lot more... Just think we're seeing away of the back-down big men, half-court game to more free-flowing, pick-and-roll, grab-and-go offense, we're seeing teams shifting away from the ground-and-pound to shotgun, multiple offenses that are airing it out... Just like big men now need to be versatile, are athletic and defend the P&R, you just don't have a coverage safety and a box safety... You need guys who can play all 3 days, in all situations...

Karl Joseph, Keanu Neal, Deone Bucannon, Tyran Mathieu, Byron Jones, Su'a Cravens...

These are the new breed of safeties, guys who can seamlessly blend between positions and be able to play in multiple spots, in multiple looks...

Peppers gives this defense tremendous versatility: he basically allows you to keep him on field on all downs and your base defense is pretty similar to your nickel defense, which you're in 60% of the time anyway... The Browns had a terrible time covering tight ends last year and someone like Peppers can help..

The other thing I like about this and the Garrett pick: the Browns have long lacked athleticism and playmakers on defense... Having top-notch athletes who can make game changing plays, is crucial.. The Browns didn't have enough guys who could make plays and now they have that...

P.S. -- I feel so much better drafting Njoku and knowing Al Saunders is on the coaching staff...

Nice post.

I can boil it down a lot more. To play defense it's good to have guys who can run and tackle. We've lacked those for years. Garrett and Peppers will be improvements at doing those things.

I'd be happy if we found a true cover corner or 2 in the draft to compete with the guys we have. But with Ogbah, Nassib, Shelton all having another year under their belt, then adding guys like Garrett and Peppers, we might just be able to get some pressure on opposing QBs this year. That would take some of the pressure off our DB coverage.

 

[DJTJ]

Also from PFF:

"Stats to know: Through three years at Michigan he gave up 58 receptions on 93 targets and broke up six passes with no interceptions when the primary defender."

If he didn't have good coverage skills in college, how is he going to do against NFL players?

He never was asked to guard the other team's best receiver in college, he was a linebacker most of the time at UM.

He did play safety as well, but he was a gadget in college just like he will be in the NFL.

Pro teams will find your weaknesses, I think it would be easy to do that against him.

Not every player is perfect and yes, he could have a role and could succeed as a player, just wouldn't have been my choice at 25.

I see a big learning curve for him, which could be fine with the Browns. Except who knows who our coach will be two years from now.

58/93 is 62%. The Browns gave up 64% as a team. Only 12 teams had team completion percentages below 62%. Carson Wentz was 18th in completion percentage at 62.4%.

He actually sounds like he's average in coverage, and a plus run defender. Hm.

 

[DrunkenBuckeye]

For all the people saying it's because Michigan hate

Would've rather had Taco than Peppers.

or Lewis or Butt

 

[gijimbo]

58/93 is 62%. The Browns gave up 64% as a team. Only 12 teams had team completion percentages below 62%. Carson Wentz was 18th in completion percentage at 62.4%.

It isn't a good comparison when you're talking about a stat for a college prospect against stats for entire NFL teams.

Peppers wasn't playing against NFL QBs or NFL weapons every week. He wasn't even covering college receivers most of the time.

Let's give an example: Gareon Conley was taken one slot before Peppers, he allowed a 37 percent completion percentage when he was the primary defender.

Not sure how you can sell those college numbers by Peppers as good. Sure, maybe he is just raw and has to learn coverage skills.

I would expect those numbers to get worse in coverage when Peppers gets to the next level with the Browns. Offenses are going to attack him.

Last take: Peppers is a gadget and a luxury pick. He would have made sense for a team in a position to take a luxury pick. The Browns needed more value at 25. Not a fan of this pick.

However, let's just watch and see what happens. If he does take hold, I think it will take a couple seasons and I don't see him being a plus player this season as a rookie.