Ex Indians update

[DCTribefan]

I'm assuming that hitting .350 and winning MVP would go along way to helping that team win. Oddball remarks continue from him.

It’s the Kyrie effect wafting over to Citi Field.

 

[WhoAzcue]

I think Frankie received lots of criticism from Cleveland fans the past two seasons but agree he was largely immune from negative comments prior to 2019.

That's because his overall play started started to decline in 2019, right when we needed him the most. For anyone to say many of us were blind to this is wholly mistaken. I was ardently against trading him, and wanted to play out his time here completely because I felt he would be a monster his last three years prior to free agency. I didn't care if we got nothing for him but a compensation pick, that's the high regard I had for him and how I expected his game to progress and the impact he would have on the team.

WRONG. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

The more he was responsible for being "the guy," the less we got from him. It was bitterly disappointing to me. So yes, I'm taking pleasure in the Met's refusal to "try before the buy." It was stupid. Lindor wasn't going to cost that much more at the end of 2021, c'mon. The Mets and Lindor and all those New York fans...they all deserve one another.

 

[Martyinnewyork]

I must admit that I’d enjoy Lindor’s struggles even more if he played for that OTHER team in NYC.

 

[jup]

Maybe the Lindor worship here wasn't as bad as IBI where I was until '19-ish. But saying something over there was met with a plenty of hostility by many.

 

[DCTribefan]

Maybe the Lindor worship here wasn't as bad as IBI where I was until '19-ish. But saying something over there was met with a plenty of hostility by many.

True dat^^

 

[BimboColesHair]

Frankie's slow starts were always critiqued hard here, and his short-comings in the post season as well.

He's still a superstar, but after the whole "they called me Frankie" and "I didn't try my hardest last year" stuff, don't blame a single Indians fan for enjoying him struggling or getting booed at home by his own fans.

 

[sportscoach]

Frankie's slow starts were always critiqued hard here, and his short-comings in the post season as well.

He's still a superstar, but after the whole "they called me Frankie" and "I didn't try my hardest last year" stuff, don't blame a single Indians fan for enjoying him struggling or getting booed at home by his own fans.

Does anyone know where Frankie is ranked WAR since he came into the pros?

 

[BimboColesHair]

Does anyone know where Frankie is ranked WAR since he came into the pros?

From June 14th, 2015 to now he ranks 8th in total fWAR. Only players worth more: Trout, Betts, Bregman, Yelich, Rendon, Bogaerts and...Jose Ramirez.

Over that span though he ranks 40th in wRC+ and 31st in OPS. His glove makes him valuable, question is how well will his defense age.

 

[CATS44]

For five years, from his first game until Covid hit, Lindor was the best overall shortstop in MLB, and the second best defensively.

He was the sixth best player in all of baseball. He averaged 5.5 fWAR for those five years.

Some folks are doing a lot of forgetting.

That five year stretch was better than any that Manny or Thome had with us.

The only Tribe position players who have had a better five year stretch in the last century are...

Grady
Jose...if you prorate last year.
Al Rosen
Larry Doby
Lou Boudreau

Notice that of the seven players mentioned above, four are in the HOF...one would be there if it weren't for steroids...and one might get there some day.

 

[Derek]

For five years, from his first game until Covid hit, Lindor was the best overall shortstop in MLB, and the second best defensively.

He was the sixth best player in all of baseball. He averaged 5.5 fWAR for those five years.

Some folks are doing a lot of forgetting.

That five year stretch was better than any that Manny or Thome had with us.

The only Tribe position players who have had a better five year stretch in the last century are...

Grady
Jose...if you prorate last year.
Al Rosen
Larry Doby
Lou Boudreau

Notice that of the seven players mentioned above, four are in the HOF...one would be there if it weren't for steroids...and one might get there some day.

I don't think anybody is forgetting that Lindor is really good, and will likely be really good.

However, I am always wary of guys who derive such a big chunk of their WAR from their defense. Not only does defense typically age poorly, but personally, I feel it's overweighted in the oft-used WAR metrics (fangraphs and baseball reference).

Like, would anybody really turn down the last five years of Lindor for five years of peak Manny Ramirez or Jim Thome?

 

[jup]

For five years, from his first game until Covid hit, Lindor was the best overall shortstop in MLB, and the second best defensively.

He was the sixth best player in all of baseball. He averaged 5.5 fWAR for those five years.

Some folks are doing a lot of forgetting.

That five year stretch was better than any that Manny or Thome had with us.

The only Tribe position players who have had a better five year stretch in the last century are...

Grady
Jose...if you prorate last year.
Al Rosen
Larry Doby
Lou Boudreau

Notice that of the seven players mentioned above, four are in the HOF...one would be there if it weren't for steroids...and one might get there some day.

Home runs in the seventh game of the world series mean as much WAR wise as one in a 15 to nothing blowout in mid May. But from a fan perspective, and a team perspective, they are worlds apart.

Frankie never consistently got it done when the lights got brightest @CATS44. RISP, playoff games, stretch runs - he just didn't measure up.

Hey but all WAR is equal so we can go wild for a game in April just like it was a decisive game in the playoffs since it is all the same by WAR CATS

 

[Criznit]

Never had much of an issue with Lindor here, I wasn't duped and it was very clear to me he had almost 0 interest in sticking around here, mainly because he knew he could get paid. No fault there.

Holes in his games started to appear and some of us emphasized the crap out of that and others dismissed or whatevered those criticisms.

He played it as well as he could of or close IMO. He can't exactly say "I'm only here because they drafted me. If they don't trade me they won't get more than a draft pick, because I ain't staying".

I often got chided on IBI when I would say - he has no desire to play/stay here, and then had to roll my eyes at their "this is how it could work" Lindor extension proposals. He rebuffed a massive extension proposal to stay here.. Why? Because he got a lot more money by doing so.....

As for the Mets, calculated risk... Or was it? Could end up hurting them for a long time..

 

[CDAV45]

Maybe the Lindor worship here wasn't as bad as IBI where I was until '19-ish. But saying something over there was met with a plenty of hostility by many.

Yeah I remember suggesting that they trade Lindor after the 2019 season and I was severely persecuted. Fans typically adore individual players, but I'm not typical and there is no player in the league that is worth what Lindor signed for IMO.

 

[Lee]

From June 14th, 2015 to now he ranks 8th in total fWAR. Only players worth more: Trout, Betts, Bregman, Yelich, Rendon, Bogaerts and...Jose Ramirez.

Over that span though he ranks 40th in wRC+ and 31st in OPS. His glove makes him valuable, question is how well will his defense age.

This Trout guy you speak of, is he any good?

 

[sportscoach]

This Trout guy you speak of, is he any good?

I think he can swim?? May have to ask phelps lol