Game 73 | Cavaliers @ Spurs | March 26th, 2010 | 8:30 PM (EST)

[malus]

LeBron lauls his opponent to sleep by letting them get by him just so he can block there shot. He wants to do it, but when he really wants to keep an opponent from getting by him he's really succesful at it. LeBron allows dribble penetration when he's not trying....he would wear out if he excerted the energy it took to keep his opponent out of the lane for a whole game.

That's a first.

So every time an opponent gets by him, he was "lauling them", but he's successful when he decides to be.

Ehhh...I don't see it.

 

[Heej]

I've seen him, over the last 2 years, bottle up Tyreke Evans, Dwayne Wade, Rajon Rondo, Kobe Bryant, Carmelo Anthony, Paul Pierce, Danny Granger, Joe Johnson, Iguodala, Durant, and Brandon Roy to name a few in crunch time. LeBron is physically able to guard every perimeter player in the NBA.

Well, all he's saying is that Lebron against a very quick pg like DRose has a very good chance of getting beaten off the dribble. Is that really so hard to stomach? Sure, Lebron's athletic but he still has his deficiencies. Just like today he's shown us an example of how he has average balance compared to freaks like Kobe and Michael due to how much momentum he has when he drives.

I don't think the point he's making is in any way wrong, it's not like Lebron is Joe Dumars and has the quickest feet, greatest lateral movement, and most picture perfect textbook shuffle the game will ever see. If he's facing someone that's out of this world quick yeah, there's a decent chance he can get burned or frozen by a ridiculous cross-over, and us Lebron fans gain nothing from disputing that.

Lebron's shown that when he's locked in he can use his size and strength to keep nearly any perimeter players at bay, but all this dude is saying is that sometimes there are freaks of nature that are out of this world quick like Darren Collison, Aaron Brooks, DRose, Ty Lawson, and other small point guards or 2 guards that Lebron can't keep in front of him. Is it really so wrong to say that? I happen to think he's making a decent point, he's just selling Lebron's length short is all. People talk about KD's arms and yet fail to realize that Lebron is 6'8" and quite literally has a 7 foot wingspan (no joke).

I think that's mostly what allows Lebron to lock down these guys, he's so big that people fail to truly appreciate how long his arms are. It's the same reason that someone like Wade was also able to contain Lebron to an extent because he's also a physical freak of nature with abnormally long arms and freakishly large hands. No one expects that shit from all-stars/superstars, but when they get locked in by stars like Wade, Lebron, KD, or Rondo that length hits them like a freight train.

 

[malus]

I've seen him, over the last 2 years, bottle up Tyreke Evans, Dwayne Wade, Rajon Rondo, Kobe Bryant, Carmelo Anthony, Paul Pierce, Danny Granger, Joe Johnson, Iguodala, Durant, and Brandon Roy to name a few in crunch time. LeBron is physically able to guard every perimeter player in the NBA.

Define bottle up.

Granger, Tyreke, Pierce, and Joe Johnson occasionally perhaps. But Dwyane Wade shut down by Lebron? Kobe Bryant and Carmelo shut down by Lebron? I'm not so sure.

I'm not saying he's bad or even an average defender. However, if the things you're saying are true there's no reason he shouldn't be the leader in all Dpoy voting. Since he's apparently able to bottle up all the league's best players.

Crunch time is only a couple of minutes when it comes to Lebron, a player that only plays great defense in the final minutes isn't a great defender. Every defender worth his salt steps it up in the clutch, not just James. No one give me the 'save energy' stuff. He's literally the league's best athlete nearing his prime.

I'd still take Andy and Delonte as our best 'pure' defenders.

 

[Heej]

Define bottle up.

Granger, Tyreke, Pierce, and Joe Johnson occasionally perhaps. But Dwyane Wade shut down by Lebron? Kobe Bryant and Carmelo shut down by Lebron? I'm not so sure.

I'm not saying he's bad or even an average defender. However, if the things you're saying are true there's no reason he shouldn't be the leader in all Dpoy voting. Since he's apparently able to bottle up all the league's best players.

Crunch time is only a couple of minutes when it comes to Lebron, a player that only plays great defense in the final minutes isn't a great defender. Every defender worth his salt steps it up in the clutch, not just James. No one give me the 'save energy' stuff. He's literally the league's best athlete nearing his prime.

I'd still take Andy and Delonte as our best 'pure' defenders.

In regards to this, sure Lebron's the best athlete in the league right now but even I don't think his stamina is his strong point compared to the athlete we've seen pass through the NBA. Compared to other all time athletic superfreaks like MJ, Russell, Wilt, and Iverson I just don't see Lebron's stamina holding a candle to what they've displayed. So yes, Lebron having to save his energy is a very legitimate argument. He may be able to run and jump with the best of them, but his motor doesn't last nearly as long as the guys I've mentioned.

 

[malus]

In regards to this, sure Lebron's the best athlete in the league right now but even I don't think his stamina is his strong point compared to the athlete we've seen pass through the NBA. Compared to other all time athletic superfreaks like MJ, Russell, Wilt, and Iverson I just don't see Lebron's stamina holding a candle to what they've displayed. So yes, Lebron having to save his energy is a very legitimate argument. He may be able to run and jump with the best of them, but his motor doesn't last nearly as long as the guys I've mentioned.

True, but that's kind of an assumption more than anything. I don't see Lebron's stamina not being able to hold a candle to any player in the NBA. There's been a few articles claiming Lebron to be damn near the best NBA athlete of all time, not just this generation.

Sometimes I think that Lebron relies too much on his size and athletecism when it comes to defence. I don't quite get the same 'wow' moments from him when it comes to defense. I don't see him trapping guys into corners and blocking their driving lanes and making a point to get his hand right in the opponent's face most of the time other than at the final minutes. I see fastbreak blocked shots and steals instead, which while nice aren't really what makes a great defender.

Its understandable just because Lebron didn't come to the nba to be a defensive specialist. He believes in a team defensive concept and takes pride in being a darn good defender, and there's nothing wrong with that.In fact all coaches would be thrilled with a guy like that to work with. I just don't see it to be realistic when people praise him as the end-all defender that shuts down the Kobes/Wades/Carmelos when he 'turns it on'.

 

[Redz West is Best]

the reason why we couldn't guard Manu tonight is because we have Jamison, Z, and freakin Hickson providing the help out defense. People get caught up of watching the 1 on 1 crap..but if Lebron provided better help out maybe West/Parker and whomever wouldn't look that bad. West imo didn't look bad and made plays. We missed AV and we still miss a player like Big Ben from last year. We have no one like that. We don't have a good shot blocker intimidator. Aggressive players will continue to just stick down our throats. .... Players like West and Moon and Lebron will have no shot at playing good perimeter d against a guy like Manu.

Someone keeps saying we should have put Lebron on Manu. Lebron was our only shotblocker out there. Lebron would be out the picture on the weak side, help defense, defending the passing lanes, and rebounding. There is a reason why Lebron doesn't always guard the best slasher on the other team. He is needed in other areas on defense.

 

[-Akronite-]

Missed the game and kind of glad, caught the very end in a bowling alley.

Not a big deal, we still have the league's best record and all that matters is winning Sunday's game. Z's first home game back is a sentimental must win IMO.

 

[Heej]

True, but that's kind of an assumption more than anything. I don't see Lebron's stamina not being able to hold a candle to any player in the NBA. There's been a few articles claiming Lebron to be damn near the best NBA athlete of all time, not just this generation.

Sometimes I think that Lebron relies too much on his size and athletecism when it comes to defence. I don't quite get the same 'wow' moments from him when it comes to defense. I don't see him trapping guys into corners and blocking their driving lanes and making a point to get his hand right in the opponent's face most of the time other than at the final minutes. I see fastbreak blocked shots and steals instead, which while nice aren't really what makes a great defender.

Its understandable just because Lebron didn't come to the nba to be a defensive specialist. He believes in a team defensive concept and takes pride in being a darn good defender, and there's nothing wrong with that.In fact all coaches would be thrilled with a guy like that to work with. I just don't see it to be realistic when people praise him as the end-all defender that shuts down the Kobes/Wades/Carmelos when he 'turns it on'.

When did I ever say that? Not once did I compare it to your run of the mill NBA player. I was clearly talking about 3 of the NBA's all time physical freaks of nature: AI, Wilt, and MJ. I think Lebron's the second greatest athlete the NBA has ever seen after Wilt, but it doesn't change the fact that there are some aspects of Lebron's athleticism that don't stand out nearly as much as his more dominant aspects.

 

[Pioneer10]

Lebron's a freak of nature but he's still human: the only way he'd be able to really be able to lock down Bowen type of defense for a whole game is if we'd have a prime Shaq instead of the Big Grandpa out there.

He's an extremely good defender when he wants to be but I think he's Pippen like in that he's a touch bit better at help defense then man defense. His man defense is very good against smaller players (i.e. Evans, Kevin Martin, Joe Johnson) as he's able to use his size and strenght to just lock them up. Guy who length and quickness (Melo, Kobe, Durant) have an easier time scoring on Lebron. Then again those guys will score against anybody else in the world. So do I think he's DPOY: no. Could he be if he didn't have to our best scorer and passer night in and night out: I think he not only has the tools but shown in the past he's got the capacity to do it

 

[malus]

When did I ever say that? Not once did I compare it to your run of the mill NBA player. I was clearly talking about 3 of the NBA's all time physical freaks of nature: AI, Wilt, and MJ. I think Lebron's the second greatest athlete the NBA has ever seen after Wilt, but it doesn't change the fact that there are some aspects of Lebron's athleticism that don't stand out nearly as much as his more dominant aspects.

I didn't mean any player as in, any regular player. I meant that no matter who the player I wouldn't say Lebron couldn't hold a candle to him.

Not any one player thats played is that much better than Lebron physically, is more clear to say. And I still don't quite understand how we know the amount of stamina Lebron has compared to those other players.

I'm going to try not to drag this point any longer, arguing against Lebron isn't an advantageous way to post here lol.

 

[Heej]

Lebron's a freak of nature but he's still human: the only way he'd be able to really be able to lock down Bowen type of defense for a whole game is if we'd have a prime Shaq instead of the Big Grandpa out there.

He's an extremely good defender when he wants to be but I think he's Pippen like in that he's a touch bit better at help defense then man defense. His man defense is very good against smaller players (i.e. Evans, Kevin Martin, Joe Johnson) as he's able to use his size and strenght to just lock them up. Guy who length and quickness (Melo, Kobe, Durant) have an easier time scoring on Lebron. Then again those guys will score against anybody else in the world. So do I think he's DPOY: no. Could he be if he didn't have to our best scorer and passer night in and night out: I think he not only has the tools but shown in the past he's got the capacity to do it

I've always felt Pippen was known more for his man defense than help defense, while MJ's help defense was more acknowledged than his man defense. But I get what you mean, his man defense is nowhere near as stellar as his superb help defense. No matter how you look at it, Lebron is just a basketball prodigy. He reads plays and shoots through passing lanes in a way we haven't seen since MJ and Bird. He's not quite on their level just yet, but he's certainly in that same mold.

 

[Zog]

Define bottle up.

Granger, Tyreke, Pierce, and Joe Johnson occasionally perhaps. But Dwyane Wade shut down by Lebron? Kobe Bryant and Carmelo shut down by Lebron? I'm not so sure.

I'm not saying he's bad or even an average defender. However, if the things you're saying are true there's no reason he shouldn't be the leader in all Dpoy voting. Since he's apparently able to bottle up all the league's best players.

Crunch time is only a couple of minutes when it comes to Lebron, a player that only plays great defense in the final minutes isn't a great defender. Every defender worth his salt steps it up in the clutch, not just James. No one give me the 'save energy' stuff. He's literally the league's best athlete nearing his prime.

I'd still take Andy and Delonte as our best 'pure' defenders.

If LeBron was asked to stand in the corner and not do anything on offense except shoot corner threes like Parker, he could be a great defender.

As for bottling up Wade, Kobe, and Carmelo... I distinctly remember the games against the Nuggets last year in which LeBron absolutely shut down Carmelo. In one game, I believe Carmelo scored only 6 points on LeBron and got most of his points when Wally defended him for a few minutes. There was a game a couple years ago when LeBron shut down Kobe over the last minutes of the game. Wade and LeBron have had plenty of back-and-forth battles over the year with LeBron usually getting the better of Wade. Look at the game in Miami this year where LeBron forced Wade to shoot the ball at a higher trajectory than normal at the end of the game.

When did I ever say that? Not once did I compare it to your run of the mill NBA player. I was clearly talking about 3 of the NBA's all time physical freaks of nature: AI, Wilt, and MJ. I think Lebron's the second greatest athlete the NBA has ever seen after Wilt, but it doesn't change the fact that there are some aspects of Lebron's athleticism that don't stand out nearly as much as his more dominant aspects.

I'm not so sure about that... LeBron can play entire games, and I'm pretty sure he did against the Magic in the playoffs and not have any drop off. Look at Game 5 vs. Detroit as well.

Playing all out all the time in the regular season is dumb if you're playing 40 minutes or so per game.

 

[Obawan12]

Well, I went to the game, and while we did lose I must say it was way more fun than watching us blow them out like last year.

One thing I thought I noticed: did anyone else think LeBron was way to passive in the 4th quarter until it didn't matter anymore? He seemed content feeding JJ and Mo for bricks and offensive fouls. I thought he should have been more assertive when his teammates weren't delivering.

And, of course, we completely ignore AJ in the 4th quarter.

 

[MikeSwim07]

Well, I went to the game, and while we did lose I must say it was way more fun than watching us blow them out like last year.

One thing I thought I noticed: did anyone else think LeBron was way to passive in the 4th quarter until it didn't matter anymore? He seemed content feeding JJ and Mo for bricks and offensive fouls. I thought he should have been more assertive when his teammates weren't delivering.

And, of course, we completely ignore AJ in the 4th quarter.

I agree, J.J. racking up the offensive fouls makes me angry. He really needs to work on that. He is starting to make his attack at the bucket way to early. He like jumps from the ft line just from a pass from lebron.

AJ was almost non existent in the second half, not really sure why. I think he missed a few shots and the team never really gave him any more opportunities.

Lebron, I agree, looked waaaay to passive. For one, he looked aweful on defense. I can see him not really getting what he wanted on the offensive end because of the way the Spurs were guarding him in the fourth but there is no excuse for lazy defense.

Mo had a bad game.

AJ continued to miss fts...

AP plays too much. I'm not saying drastically take away his minutes, but I think he should be playing 5+ less minutes than he does now. If this is going to work playoff time, MB needs to make this change soon or our rotations will be bad. I don't think MB knows that AP needs to play less minutes.

 

[malus]

If LeBron was asked to stand in the corner and not do anything on offense except shoot corner threes like Parker, he could be a great defender.

As for bottling up Wade, Kobe, and Carmelo... I distinctly remember the games against the Nuggets last year in which LeBron absolutely shut down Carmelo. In one game, I believe Carmelo scored only 6 points on LeBron and got most of his points when Wally defended him for a few minutes. There was a game a couple years ago when LeBron shut down Kobe over the last minutes of the game. Wade and LeBron have had plenty of back-and-forth battles over the year with LeBron usually getting the better of Wade. Look at the game in Miami this year where LeBron forced Wade to shoot the ball at a higher trajectory than normal at the end of the game.

Maybe he could be known as an amazing defender if we intended for him to be one. Say if Mike tells Lebron in the huddle that we need him to handle a certain guy and it becomes his #1 priority.

I just don't like giving extra credit to guys for their D because they 'can' do it. That when he 'turns it on' or 'decides be serious' he can become an all-world defender. Even if the reasons for him not pushing himself on D are valid, it doesn't make much sense to give him credit for what he can do rather than what he does. Wade always came near to matching him in production in their meetings, Carmelo got the better of him more recently. I just feel that the praise about him being a crazy-awesome man to man defender is a bit overboard.

The thing about Wade's shot being altered, Lebron damn well better have been able to alter Wade's shot. He's a couple inches taller than him and it was the possible buzzer beating shot, if there's a time to contest a shot, that would be it.

When talking about the dpoy, Lebron's candidacy is about as serious as Dwight's in the MVP race. He HAS to be mentioned, he is a very good defender on the best team. But he's not being seriously considered.