Game Thread 2020-21 Season | Game #23 | Bucks @ Cavs | February 5, 2021

[Rich]

We’re also playing without one of our best two way players in Nance and a guy who even though he has his own issues and is not a part of the long term, does open up some things on offense(Love)

Last year our winning percentage was 29%

Did you really think based on the small changes to last years roster that we were going to be or should be expected to be a .500 team?

With few exceptions, teams that do improve progressively over consecutive seasons, usually improve by maybe 6-10 wins per year, except in the cases of massive trades or acquisitions involving generational players in their prime.

I‘ trying to get a handle and understanding for what you were expecting?

So I should enter the season expecting exactly zero of the Cavs draft picks to look like future star level players, despite three straight lotteries? My expectations should be what, then?

For reference on Garland: He's currently sporting 13.8 PER, gets 5 assists a game and a little over 2 rebounds. He never, ever gets to the FT line and is generally afraid to shoot anything other than a set 3 pointer.

So, yea. He's better than last year. But that's sorta underselling just how damn bad he was last year. He was truly a terrible player in every facet. So if there was NO improvement at all, he'd just be a straight up bust at this point.

And I can't stress this enough: If neither one of them are going to be consistent star level players and above, then the Cavs probably messed up drafting them back to back.

People seem to missing the fact that the Cavs have NOT drafted for fit, at all. They've drafted three guards in a row. So this whole idea that they're improving into some nice, solid players is....not good enough. Because if that's all we've got, then they can't work together.

 

[Rich]

Oh, and while I don't yet believe that you can build a team around Sexton or commit to maxing him out, let's be upfront. He's CLEARLY a better player than Garland. He was better last year, and he's a lot better this year.

So if you choose Garland, you are doing it entirely on the hopes that there's some big, giant leap. Because, today, the two players aren't relatively close. Sexton is more efficient on higher volume. He generates more steals. He draws far more fouls.

So I just want everyone who sides with Garland to understand that you're choosing the worse player between the two.

 

[MirORich]

Colin‘s big leap was really the second half of last year after about roughly 120 NBA games, a complete season of college ball, and two normal/full training camps

Garland played, 6 games of college ball, is 73 games into his NBA career, and compounding that lack of high level reps and experience in a pandemic year cycle.

I‘d like to think we can wait a little bit longer than what is the equivelant of less than a full NBA season before being overeager to claim what his floor or ceiling is. I also think it’s well before the time we need to know if we have to “choose” one over the other.

(opinion/assumption) You’re going to dig deeper into your position though because looking at this schedule through the break, there are a lot of losses coming, so I doubt you’ll be changing your mind much from where it is now.

 

[Rich]

Colin‘s big leap was really the second half of last year after about roughly 120 NBA games, a complete season of college ball, and two normal/full training camps

Garland played, 6 games of college ball, is 73 games into his NBA career, and compounding that lack of high level reps and experience in a pandemic year cycle.

I‘d like to think we can wait a little bit longer than what is the equivelant of less than a full NBA season before being overeager to claim what his floor or ceiling is. I also think it’s well before the time we need to know if we have to “choose” one over the other.

(opinion/assumption) You’re going to dig deeper into your position though because looking at this schedule through the break, there are a lot of losses coming, so I doubt you’ll be changing your mind much from where it is now.

Well yes Miro if the Cavs keep losing and getting blown out regularly that certainly would seem rational for me to conclude that this doesn't work long-term. I mean, that would be evidence in my favor. Because if you're going to be good, then you need to actually beat good teams.

The list of excuses for Garland can be ten miles long. Whatever. Doesn't matter.

What I'm telling you is that right now, today, in year 2, Garland is not a good basketball player. This is a statement of fact. And considering the guy they drafted the year before him, I don't like the chances of this working out long-term at this point. Doesn't mean they need to make a decision anytime soon. They can let the year play out and see where it ends up. But if this season falls off a cliff, they should be make the decision this summer.


I look at a team like the Bulls and I can confidently say that what they've done doesn't work long-term. That team that they're gonna try and build around Zach Lavine might make the playoffs like once or twice, barely. I don't want the Cavs to be that. I don't want them maxing out fringe all-stars just because they're on the team.

I don't want to be the Orlando Magic, who shells out monster cash for a mediocre player like Aaron Gordon just because he's on the team and is now locked into competing for the 8th seed year after year. So yea, I was hoping I'd see some star level shit out of our guys this year, to make that decision a little easier. Maybe we will. Maybe we won't. But I dunno why I'm wrong to have hoped for that.

EDIT: And I'm not judging Okoro a failed pick this early. I like the kid, honestly. Just like I like Sexton and think he's been pretty good all things considered.

BUT..........SGA is better. And Tyler Haliburton (the guy I wanted tbf) has been better.

 

[Pioneer10]

e. Getting blown out more regularly now that the competition is better.

Defense has taken a nosedive. And Sexton's peak against the Nets has fallen off a cliff.

This team misses Nance badly. Defensive energy has slipped considerably and we are getting beat up by longer teams.

That being said, somebody has to make some damn shots. We had multiple wide open 3s in the 2nd half in big swing moments and every one was missed.

How many travels did Giannis get away with tonight? 5? 10? Not sure how a dude that big blatantly palms the ball repeatedly on the same drive in clear view and nothing gets called.

Nance's stock continues to rise the longer he is hurt. Looks like a totally different team since he got hurt. He's a Draymond Green type of guy.
I wonder if there is a way to steal the Lakers scouts: that team is good at finding gems. Hate to say it but I don't think the Lakers trade THT for any of the Cavs last 3 first rounders (actually I'm positive they wouldn't deal THT straight up for either Sexton, Garland, or Okoro)

 

[ansatsusha80]

 

[daddywags]

That's amazing. Sexton played 38 minutes, most on the team, and he was +4, the only guy on our team not in negative numbers.

 

[MirORich]

Get Nance back
Get a backup PG
Get Drummond off the team

Then roll with that and do the best you can to maintain good effort and culture while developing a ton of young guys. Evaluate after the season and draft accordingly.

 

[LeeBuckeye]

Either Sexton and Garland have to spam threes or other guys have to actually start hitting their wide open shots. We’re dead last in the league in attempt and 20th in percentage.

Without harping too much, there a few guys trying to do stuff that’s not in their toolbox and Drummond isn’t alone there. The entire offense is midrange floaters for Sexland and post looks from Drummond. If that’s the game plan then they simply can’t afford miss shots or go cold.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Very good first half offensively as the Cavs put up 63 points to take a lead into the locker room, but they were outscored 63-42 in the second half. Giannis took over once he saw the Cavs were being pesky. The Cavs were still within five points going into the 4th but the Bucks closed it out methodically.

The Bucks won the battle of the boards 54-36. DiVincenzo, a guard, had 11 rebounds. The Bucks size advantage was too much between Giannis, Middleton, Lopez and Portis, plus their guards are great rebounders. Of their 54 rebounds, 18 were by guards.

The Cavs showed some nice balanced scoring with seven players in double figures but they couldn't sustain it in the second half. The Bucks had 13 offensive rebounds as they were clearly bigger and more physical on the front line.

I get the sense that if the Cavs play their best game of the season they will be tied after three quarters but Giannis and Middleton will just take it up a notch and put the Cavs away. At least the Cavs made them play basketball in the fourth quarter. The last two games the Bucks had 100 points after three quarters.

The Bucks really exploited Garland defensively as he was a -23 with the next worst being Stevens, who was a -15 in 18 minutes. We really need Nance to take Stevens' minutes.

The Bucks only made seven 3's despite averaging over 16 so this game could have been a blowout. The Cavs had nine blocked shots and only 11 turnovers - very good numbers. They also launched 32 triples after only 10 the last game. I'm seeing flashes here and there (how about Allen hitting a 3-pointer and Garland winning a jump ball against Giannis?) but it seems every opponent has one or two unstoppable players and we don't have any. Tonight it was Giannis and Middleton, last game it was George and Leonard. Before that it was Julius Randle, then LeBron James, Jaylen Brown, Irving and Durant, etc.

Eight games in a row against teams over .500. One down, seven to go, six of them on the road. A hard rain's gonna fall.

 

[Dr. Claw]

Get Nance back
Get a backup PG
Get Drummond off the team

Then roll with that and do the best you can to maintain good effort and culture while developing a ton of young guys. Evaluate after the season and draft accordingly.

Pretty much.

Also, more 3 attempts. This team gets within 3, you turn from the screen for a minute or two, and they're down 10+.

I am not expecting this team to be a playoff team... yet. But goddammit, MORE 3s, stop going into the paint so much for once, if there isn't someone set up on the corner for you to pass. Pull up and take 3s (mostly, Sexton). Seems only Cedi does that, and he's the last one I want doing excessive amounts of that.

Love can't get back any sooner.

 

[Cavatt]

Cavs should have had 3pt shooters in at the end there.

Drummond should have guarded Giannis a lot more. He was great staying in front of him. NOt in the open floor, but 3pt line and down.

Drummond made some mistakes, but this was one of his best games. Just played the right way. Good mix of aggression and passingout of the post. Had 4 assists? 2-3 was on kick outs. Just do that, it will literally change your offensive game. Easy basket, go for it. Hard basket, kick to the perimeter.

Great game by the Cavs all around. More experienced team just put them away. Giannis came in and dominated after returning form bleeding. That was cool to see. Cavs just need to respond. Another game like that would be amazing. They competed 80% of the game, got beat by a tough huge team. I really liked the effort. Windler played a great game despite the misses from 3.

 

[BigZ94]

Cavs should have had 3pt shooters in at the end there.

Drummond should have guarded Giannis a lot more. He was great staying in front of him. NOt in the open floor, but 3pt line and down.

Drummond made some mistakes, but this was one of his best games. Just played the right way. Good mix of aggression and passingout of the post. Had 4 assists? 2-3 was on kick outs. Just do that, it will literally change your offensive game. Easy basket, go for it. Hard basket, kick to the perimeter.

Great game by the Cavs all around. More experienced team just put them away. Giannis came in and dominated after returning form bleeding. That was cool to see. Cavs just need to respond. Another game like that would be amazing. They competed 80% of the game, got beat by a tough huge team. I really liked the effort. Windler played a great game despite the misses from 3.

He started out great in the first half, effort on D, the kick outs as you mentioned. A couple bad shots but nothing major. But then predictably second half went back to his nonsense. Terrible shots, the ball stopped going out of the post. Lazy sloppy defence.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

The Cavs played the right way for a majority of the night. The back-and-forth game featured 19 lead changes and 16 ties. - Fedor

We have a lot of the full picture drawn in, we just need to sketch the rest of it. - Jarrett Allen

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

The Cavs played the right way for a majority of the night. The back-and-forth game featured 19 lead changes and 16 ties. - Fedor

We have a lot of the full picture drawn in, we just need to sketch the rest of it. - Jarrett Allen

Jarrett's Allen IQ is too much!

Best quote by a BB player since...?