Game Thread | 2021-2022 Season | Game #62 | Hornets @ Cavs | March 2, 2022 | 7:00 p.m.

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Not to make excuses for the Cavs but the last two games they have faced teams coming off embarassing beat-downs. Minnesota was coming off a 133-102 loss to Philly while Charlotte was coming off a 130-106 loss to Milwaukee. I'm sure both teams got reamed out by their coaches after getting hammered and they came into Cleveland with some fire in their bellies. They both played with a lot of intensity and focus which the Cavs failed to match.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Gotta point out the difference in starting shooting guards.

Rozier 29/7/7 +24 in 33 minutes
Okoro 4/1/0 -14 in 28 minutes

And the scoring wing off the bench.

Oubre 19/4/5 in 27 minutes
Osman 9/1/4 in 20 minutes

I'm starting to wonder if the Cavs are finding their level right now after playing over their heads in the first 2/3rds of the season. Was it a combination of opponents not taking them seriously, not having a game plan for dealing with three bigs, and Ricky Rubio keeping the second unit afloat?

Well, the Cavs are being taken seriously now and teams have had enough time to watch film and come up with a game plan against three bigs. And we lost Rubio, who was second highest on the team in +/-.

I'm starting to think the expectations resulting from the great first 56 games are too high. Maybe when LeVert gets back and Markkanen gets his legs under him things will get better. But this next stretch of schedule is brutal. This could get worse before it gets better.

 

[CavzAddict]

I think we all feared a rough patch and here we are. They are young. Young teams go through shit like this. We are much further ahead than any of us could imagine going into this season. Let's critique our guys without tearing them down.

 

[KilgoreTrout]

Not to make excuses for the Cavs but the last two games they have faced teams coming off embarassing beat-downs. Minnesota was coming off a 133-102 loss to Philly while Charlotte was coming off a 130-106 loss to Milwaukee. I'm sure both teams got reamed out by their coaches after getting hammered and they came into Cleveland with some fire in their bellies. They both played with a lot of intensity and focus which the Cavs failed to match.

I sure hope WE come out next game with fire in our bellies. I hope WE play with a lot of intensity and focus which our opponents can’t match, after getting reamed by JBB.

 

[buzzdog]

Gotta point out the difference in starting shooting guards.

Rozier 29/7/7 +24 in 33 minutes
Okoro 4/1/0 -14 in 28 minutes

And the scoring wing off the bench.

Oubre 19/4/5 in 27 minutes
Osman 9/1/4 in 20 minutes

I'm starting to wonder if the Cavs are finding their level right now after playing over their heads in the first 2/3rds of the season. Was it a combination of opponents not taking them seriously, not having a game plan for dealing with three bigs, and Ricky Rubio keeping the second unit afloat?

Well, the Cavs are being taken seriously now and teams have had enough time to watch film and come up with a game plan against three bigs. And we lost Rubio, who was second highest on the team in +/-.

I'm starting to think the expectations resulting from the great first 56 games are too high. Maybe when LeVert gets back and Markkanen gets his legs under him things will get better. But this next stretch of schedule is brutal. This could get worse before it gets better.

This is pretty much where I think we're at. Garland's numbers were good by the end of the game but he was pretty rusty (which is understandable), committing turnovers and missing shots in critical stretches when they padded their lead. I think that sunk the overall morale when we needed a boost, and we never recovered.

 

[kidduck]

From the Charlotte side:

There was no amnesia for the Hornets, not after the wild outcome against the Cavaliers in Charlotte last month that had them bewildered thanks to some botched calls by the officials, only made worse when the league’s two-minute report was released less than 24 hours later. “Oh, I remembered it like it was yesterday, man,” Kelly Oubre said. “Jarrett Allen had 29 and 22 and he put up some (NBA) 2K numbers on us. So we kind of used that as fuel and motivation to just try to come out there, and take care of the glass as much as possible and try to be more physical.”

Pounding the Cavaliers is one thing. Doing it with your All-Star riddled in foul trouble and mostly glued to the bench after logging just eight total minutes — five in the first half when he was saddled with the fouls — and not playing a tick in the fourth quarter is something else. LaMelo Ball’s foul woes weren’t even an issue. Undaunted after losing two straight, including a 24-point loss in Milwaukee two nights earlier, not only did the Hornets (31-33) lead by as many as 24 points in the third quarter, when the Cavaliers whittled the gap to 12 points in the fourth, Charlotte showed no signs of panic. Shots weren’t rushed. Turnovers didn’t begin to rack up. Anxiety never became an issue. They took the cue from their resident Northeast Ohio native, who feasts whenever he’s playing the team he grew up rooting for. “S---, I’m at home,” Hornets guard Terry Rozier said. “I’m with my people. I get to see my kids and just relax. So I grew up around here, came to a lot of games when I was young. So it means a lot for me to be successful in this building, and see my people when I look over to the sideline and see them right there in attendance.”

 

[DingleDong]

Defense stats from nba boxscore. Couple take aways.
It seems that Mobley and Allen aren't the defensive savants everyone is talking about. Mobley and Allen combined for 7-8 and 6-8 inside the arc.
Opponents went for 0-4 against Mobley in 3p line and 7-8 inside the arc.
It seems like Markkanen maybe isn't the liability he is supposed to be.
If Okoro is supposed to guard better players why is he spending less time on defending compared to others? Its both def min and partial possesssions.
What is Okoros role if he is just hidden both on defense and on offense?

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Defense stats from nba boxscore. Couple take aways.
It seems that Mobley and Allen aren't the defensive savants everyone is talking about. Mobley and Allen combined for 7-8 and 6-8 inside the arc.
Opponents went for 0-4 against Mobley in 3p line and 7-8 inside the arc.
It seems like Markkanen maybe isn't the liability he is supposed to be.
If Okoro is supposed to guard better players why is he spending less time on defending compared to others? Its both def min and partial possesssions.
What is Okoros role if he is just hidden both on defense and on offense?

View attachment 8818

Do you have a link to that boxscore?

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

From the Charlotte side:

There was no amnesia for the Hornets, not after the wild outcome against the Cavaliers in Charlotte last month that had them bewildered thanks to some botched calls by the officials, only made worse when the league’s two-minute report was released less than 24 hours later. “Oh, I remembered it like it was yesterday, man,” Kelly Oubre said. “Jarrett Allen had 29 and 22 and he put up some (NBA) 2K numbers on us. So we kind of used that as fuel and motivation to just try to come out there, and take care of the glass as much as possible and try to be more physical.”

They were definitely physical and did a great job of taking care of the glass - the Cavs only got four defensive rebounds against the 28th ranked rebounding team.

Like I said, they came out with fire in the belly.

Fedor pointed out that over the last six games the Cavs are giving up 116 ppg - worst in the league.

 

[DingleDong]

Do you have a link to that boxscore?

Its the nba.com Box score, they just add more stats after the game is over nowdays.

https://www.nba.com/game/cha-vs-cle-0022100932/box-score?type=defense

 

[jjvors]

I know why people were getting irritated with me when I said around the Holidays that Mobley’s effort and skillset was not where I liked it and I was concerned with it... You’re starting to see more and more people take issue with it as the season winds down and the stakes get higher….

He is a phenomenal young talent with so much to work with— but has so much he needs to work on….You can’t throw it to him in the post and get a quality look…. He can’t face up and hit a consistent jumper or put it on the floor (cause his handles are very loose)

He’s not a consistent outside shooter or rebounder….

Great passer, smart defender, and an overall high IQ player….

I look forward to his growth more than anyone on the team…. But he has a long way to go before he can become a 2nd option on this team…

Traditionally, bigs take longer to develop than guards and wings. Kareem and Wilt were the exceptions. Hakeem and Shaq took years to become dominant. And they entered the league at 22, not 20 like Mobley.

I'd say his development is faster than expected with rookie-type problems: consistency on offense and defense.

 

[jjvors]

On one play the Cavs played great defense and the Hornets were inbounding from the side with 3 seconds on the shot clock. The guards were being denied strongly so the inbound pass went to Plumlee near the elbow. He faced the basket and just blew by Allen for the two-handed, uncontested slam. It was pitiful. Jarrett was flat-footed and totally unprepared to defend despite only 3 seconds on the clock.

Allen ended up with a nice line; 18 and 11, which is what you expect from him, but tonight we needed more defense from everyone.

That play made my jaw drop. I couldn't understand why Jarrett wasn't between him and the basket. That's kind of simple.

 

[PIP]

Traditionally, bigs take longer to develop than guards and wings. Kareem and Wilt were the exceptions. Hakeem and Shaq took years to become dominant. And they entered the league at 22, not 20 like Mobley.

I'd say his development is faster than expected with rookie-type problems: consistency on offense and defense.

I think the things that he has in his arsenal already are the important things since a lot of which is instinctual and intelligence….

What he has to work on his far easier to obtain and achieve as opposed to a player that simply doesn’t get it…

Granted there’s been examples (and Mobley is light years more advanced than either) such as guys like Tristan and Joakim come into the league with the intelligence but not the refined game….. and they never developed it…. That’s rare tho —. It obviously can show you can have that and can stick around and make an impact even tho you don’t have the developed offensive game …

I would not be surprised if Mobley came back next season and was a 20-10 big man…The footwork and moves are there, he just needs a quality big man to work with him on a consistent basis….

 

[Dr No]

Its the nba.com Box score, they just add more stats after the game is over nowdays.

https://www.nba.com/game/cha-vs-cle-0022100932/box-score?type=defense

that is a very interesting tool - thanks for posting it. It can be totally misleading to just look at the numbers, but the ability to watch the replay of each stat category is very informative. Just an example since that was part of your original post - watch Markk's plays and you see he got pretty lucky with people missing open shots (he gets caught over-helping and ball watching a few times). Allen gets rung up a number of times for being the guy "scored against" when someone else got beat and he was the closest defender. And Okoro actually looks great in that stat line - despite playing their primary scorers a good portion of the night, they only got 4 shot off on him and at least 1 of those was a fast break he couldn't have done anything about. If someone really wanted to pick apart our defense (and where the breakdowns are occurring), spending an hour with this tool would be very informative.

 

[PIP]

Pretty cool exchange here where Evan Dummeral asked IT why did he come in and destroy the Cavs last night.





Well there you have it….