Hitting

[Wham with the Right Hand]

I'm hoping Greg Allen can contribute at least a little something from the 9 hole. He has hits in each of his last three games, including a home run. He also stole a bag and made an outstanding diving catch in right-center. I know he won't hit much, but if they keep him swinging from the left side he could be halfway decent if you factor in his range in the field and speed on the bases.

Last year he hit .248/.726 against righties. In 2018 it was .267/.691. So against right-handers he's basically a .255/.700 guy. Not impressive, but it sure looks good compared to what we got from Mercado and Zimmer.

Reportedly DeShields could have played yesterday. Allen can't hit lefties for shit so I would platoon them in center. Last year DeShields hit .276/.794 against lefties. He hits right-handers worse than Allen hits them. It seems like a no-brainer to platoon them. We would have excellent defense in center, great speed on the bases, and something like a .260/.730 combined batting line. I would be happy with that.

Naquin has six hits in his last 12 at-bats. He's coming off a .288/.792 season. I would play him every day (he had an .837 OPS against lefties last year) in right. I would play Luplow every day in left simply because we don't have another left-handed bat in the outfield.

I'm kind of done with Domingo Santana. I know, he's only had 65 at-bats but he's not coming around. Four hits and seven K's in his last 21 AB's.

 

[CDAV45]

I'm hoping Greg Allen can contribute at least a little something from the 9 hole. He has hits in each of his last three games, including a home run. He also stole a bag and made an outstanding diving catch in right-center. I know he won't hit much, but if they keep him swinging from the left side he could be halfway decent if you factor in his range in the field and speed on the bases.

Last year he hit .248/.726 against righties. In 2018 it was .267/.691. So against right-handers he's basically a .255/.700 guy. Not impressive, but it sure looks good compared to what we got from Mercado and Zimmer.

Reportedly DeShields could have played yesterday. Allen can't hit lefties for shit so I would platoon them in center. Last year DeShields hit .276/.794 against lefties. He hits right-handers worse than Allen hits them. It seems like a no-brainer to platoon them. We would have excellent defense in center, great speed on the bases, and something like a .260/.730 combined batting line. I would be happy with that.

Naquin has six hits in his last 12 at-bats. He's coming off a .288/.792 season. I would play him every day (he had an .837 OPS against lefties last year) in right. I would play Luplow every day in left simply because we don't have another left-handed bat in the outfield.

I'm kind of done with Domingo Santana. I know, he's only had 65 at-bats but he's not coming around. Four hits and seven K's in his last 21 AB's.

If you want a platoon partner for DeShields then Johnson needs to be called up. His potential with the bat far exceeds what any other CF'er on this roster can give us. At this point, he needs to prove that he can't contribute enough because everyone else already has.

 

[Criznit]

If you want a platoon partner for DeShields then Johnson needs to be called up. His potential with the bat far exceeds what any other CF'er on this roster can give us. At this point, he needs to prove that he can't contribute enough because everyone else already has.

Not sure Johnson is a major league CFer other than in the 4th OFer sense. I agree, he should get at bats, but he must not be forcing the issue in Eastlake.

New outfielder should come in. Pipeline isn't bursting and the major league team is suffering.

Long term I can see a mix of Naquin/??????/Luplow/Johnson/Mercado...

Zimmer and Allen are on their last leg(s)... Better step up now.

 

[CDAV45]

Not sure Johnson is a major league CFer other than in the 4th OFer sense. I agree, he should get at bats, but he must not be forcing the issue in Eastlake.

New outfielder should come in. Pipeline isn't bursting and the major league team is suffering.

Long term I can see a mix of Naquin/??????/Luplow/Johnson/Mercado...

Zimmer and Allen are on their last leg(s)... Better step up now.

What in his history makes you label him a 4th OFer? He needs to get better at hitting LHP, but man, his numbers are strong and he's a great athlete.

 

[Criznit]

What in his history makes you label him a 4th OFer? He needs to get better at hitting LHP, but man, his numbers are strong and he's a great athlete.

As a CF.. If the bat plays, its probably in RF. Not saying he can't handle it, but he hasn't been hyped much for his ability to man center. I'd love it, but for now it's wait and see. For now, he can play in a pinch, but everyday...

 

[CDAV45]

As a CF.. If the bat plays, its probably in RF. Not saying he can't handle it, but he hasn't been hyped much for his ability to man center. I'd love it, but for now it's wait and see. For now, he can play in a pinch, but everyday...

He's got plenty of range and speed to play CF. He only seems more suitable in RF because of his cannon for an arm. I think he should be given an opportunity to play everyday with protection against tough LHP because at this point we wouldn't be out anything with at least a mild chance of finding some offense from CF.

 

[petes999]

Right now, I don’t know why we aren’t trying Mercado and Johnson more or even Reyes in outfield with Bradley or Jones at DH. Whatever we throw out there, it just hasn’t worked. All our outfielders are just 3rd-5th type OF ... nothing that says All-Star. Johnson is the most likely above average type player. Yet, unfortunately, he isn't given much of a chance as he has been a .300 LHB against RHP in the minors and we got too much of lefties to give him an extended chance.

DeShields ... is just a RHB that plays a good CF but has always been .250 hitter with not a big career split.

Luplow ... was figured out. He is basically a RHB against LHP. His split is .222/.056 this year and .320/.216 last year. He hasn't performed much so far, but with 19 PA against LHP, he may not just have hit his stride yet in a short-season.

Naquin ... is a LHB who is hitting .333 against RHP (0-6 from LHP) who is warming up (worth a spot in line-up for what we have)... but doesn't have elite power for corner spot and can play CF but we remember why he doesn't. He is average at best with a .287/.256 career split but not a power hitter or elite CF or elite contact like Brantley.

Zimmer -- he started like he had a new life ... was 3 for 9 at the beginning but 3 for 28 since. So much for that new swing. But, is again a left handed bat that will not rise above Naquin or others for majority of playing time.

Mercado -- is the right handed bat that we need if he can adjust to the pitchers. He started last year batting .300 dropped in July/August (.219 in Aug) but was back to .260 or so in Sept/Oct. He doesn't have big spits. So if he figures out the adjustment, he may not be a .300 hitter but do acceptable job.

Johnson -- another lefty that had a great exit velocity 2 years ago at the AFL.... He has been a .300 hitter against RHP during his minors. I would take an extended look to see what we have ... what will it hurt (if opposite of Johnson).

Santana -- you would think being a RHB, that he would contribute in this line-up with a good split. But is .200 vs RHP and .063 vs LHP.and has had an even split .250 ish for his career. So we hoped to find a pot of gold and get his performance (pre-injury) but it just hasn't worked out that way. Time to see what Johnson or Mercado can do long-term.

Why not ... RHP -- Johnson, Mercado, Naquin
LHP -- Luplow, Deshields, Naquin

See what happens... and hopefully a Clevinger trade or something else can give us an elite bat to compliment Ramirez/Reyes long-term. If Clevinger is traded, this should be our key focus as we have nothing close to an elite bat until Valera in a few years. If Clevinger comp is a Sale type trade (2 top 70 players for 2-1/2 plus year of control), Braves (Pache/Waters) or Angels (Adele/Marsh) could fit the bill ... especially if right handed bat in Adell, Pache, Waters (switch) (Marsh, Frazier, Florial are lefties ...). Heck, I would even look at Bohm from Phillies as Right handed bat and then push Jones out to the outfield (if Bradley takes first).

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Since this is a short season every game is worth 2.7 in a normal season. This is not the year to give an unproven player an extended look. If you do it in a normal season and he sucks for 20 games you still have 142 left. If he sucks for 20 games this year you've wasted a third of the season.

Daniel Johnson was 1-for-12 with 5 K's and they sent him down. They clearly don't think he's ready to contribute. They've made comments that indicate they're excited about his future, but his future is not here yet. I can see him getting an extended look next year when a poor performance won't hurt as much and we'll probably have said goodbye to DeShields, Zimmer, and Santana.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Since this is a short season every game is worth 2.7 in a normal season. This is not the year to give an unproven player an extended look. If you do it in a normal season and he sucks for 20 games you still have 142 left. If he sucks for 20 games this year you've wasted a third of the season.

Daniel Johnson was 1-for-12 with 5 K's and they sent him down. They clearly don't think he's ready to contribute. They've made comments that indicate they're excited about his future, but his future is not here yet. I can see him getting an extended look next year when a poor performance won't hurt as much and we'll probably have said goodbye to DeShields, Zimmer, and Santana.

I disagree with you placing extra weight on each game.

That would be true if the playoff situation were the same--but it isn't. The Indians are basically a walk-in for the playoffs, so the games carry much less weight than they normally would, unless you want to argue that seeding is significant--which I don't believe it is.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I disagree with you placing extra weight on each game.

That would be true if the playoff situation were the same--but it isn't. The Indians are basically a walk-in for the playoffs, so the games carry much less weight than they normally would, unless you want to argue that seeding is significant--which I don't believe it is.

Yes...but the shortened season gives us much less time for failed experiments, and for putting the best possible team on the field for the playoffs. Do you give limited at-bats in a shortened season to guys whom you want to pull out of a slump, or do you give them to someone else in the hope that maybe they'll develop?

So it is less the winning of games in the shortened season, but rather the more limited AB for hitters, and innings for pitchers.

 

[Derek]

Yes...but the shortened season gives us much less time for failed experiments, and for putting the best possible team on the field for the playoffs. Do you give limited at-bats in a shortened season to guys whom you want to pull out of a slump, or do you give them to someone else in the hope that maybe they'll develop?

So it is less the winning of games in the shortened season, but rather the more limited AB for hitters, and innings for pitchers.

In a shortened season like this, it's naturally going to lead to veterans getting a much longer leash than rookies, and here's why:

Veterans have much longer track records. We know who they are. Carlos Santana is slashing .212/.392/.323 this year, but he's a .250/.368/.447 guy for his career, so we can reasonably expect him to perform at that level over the next 30 games rather than the stat line he's posted over the most recent 30 games. It's the same reason guys don't get benched in the playoffs when they go 0-12 in games 1-3 of a series. Recent performance has proven to be a poor indicator of future performance compared to career performance.

For rookies, they don't have a track record. To get time in a season like this, they have to hit the ground running and produce. It's not because the managers think they suck, it's because they're an unknown, and they don't feel they have time to find out what they are.

I wouldn't mind seeing Daniel Johnson get at-bats over Freeman and Allen, but Allen has also been passable against righties throughout his career while Johnson is simply an unknown quantity, who didn't capitalize on his limited opportunities.

To be clear, just because we're only playing 60 games instead of 162 doesn't make each game actually 2.7x more valuable, especially not regarding sample size or predicting future, but the limited time certainly comes into play when you're evaluating unknowns.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Yes...but the shortened season gives us much less time for failed experiments, and for putting the best possible team on the field for the playoffs. Do you give limited at-bats in a shortened season to guys whom you want to pull out of a slump, or do you give them to someone else in the hope that maybe they'll develop?

So it is less the winning of games in the shortened season, but rather the more limited AB for hitters, and innings for pitchers.

I give it to the players I want ready for the playoffs.

For example, as long as he gets right, Clevinger should be our #2, so bringing him back up and getting him ready is a priority. In the rotation, Bieber/Clevinger/Civale need to be ready to go, and then I'm figuring out what to do with Cookie. If he's unable to start, I'm letting Plesac and McKenzie battle for that last spot.

In the bullpen, I'm preserving arms. The less stress I can put on guys like Karinchak and Hand right now, the better.

In the lineup, pretty much every position is set except for the OF spots. In the OF, I'm trying to get Naquin and Luplow ready. I honestly don't know what the answer is for the rest of the guys. I think it's too late to try and bring up a Daniel Johnson or Jake Bauers. We're better off with DeShields playing everyday in CF, and letting someone like Domingo try and find his bat in LF while we look for a cheap replacement in the trade market.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I give it to the players I want ready for the playoffs.

For example, as long as he gets right, Clevinger should be our #2, so bringing him back up and getting him ready is a priority. In the rotation, Bieber/Clevinger/Civale need to be ready to go, and then I'm figuring out what to do with Cookie. If he's unable to start, I'm letting Plesac and McKenzie battle for that last spot.

In the bullpen, I'm preserving arms. The less stress I can put on guys like Karinchak and Hand right now, the better.

In the lineup, pretty much every position is set except for the OF spots. In the OF, I'm trying to get Naquin and Luplow ready. I honestly don't know what the answer is for the rest of the guys. I think it's too late to try and bring up a Daniel Johnson or Jake Bauers. We're better off with DeShields playing everyday in CF, and letting someone like Domingo try and find his bat in LF while we look for a cheap replacement in the trade market.

I don't disagree with either you or @Derek as to what we should do. I was just observing how the truncated season essentially forces us into that decision.

 

[Lee]

It makes sense that on a Cleveland Indians message board this thread is much shorter than the pitching thread.

 

[Derek]

It makes sense that on a Cleveland Indians message board this thread is much shorter than the pitching thread.

To be fair, there's already a thread about the lineup, and it actually has eight more posts than the Starting Pitching thread.