I'm bothered by our indifference towards Gooden

[midgetstilts]

Admittedly, I pretty much sit back and read posts, and I must say that I love this board. But as a Cavs fan out here in Los Angeles that gets excited to get home from work so I can watch every Cavs game on league pass, I am surprised that everyone believes Haslem is a better player then Gooden. I'm wondering if I'm missing out on something that Cleveland based fans would know about him off the court, that I'm not taking into account.

I don't think Gooden is getting a fair shake. The only thing that excites me about Gooden being replaced in the starting lineup possibly is that I have no doubt Gooden can create his own scoring which is something that would be very useful to our second unit. However I believe much of the inconsistency that we saw last year, was a result of him receiving sporadic minutes and being jerked in and out of games and replaced by Traylor for that stretch of time in the starting lineup.

Two things have bothered me to this point this offseason:

1.) The way Gooden has been treated by our fans and by the management in general.

My take: He's young. He's played for something like 7 coaches, and I think given a little more time, he will prove to be the running, mobile, consistent double double guy that we all seek. He has two main drawbacks at this point that were blatently apparent during last season. His tendency to settle for 18-20 foot jumpers (which Z and traylor were much more dependable at) and his bouts of inconsistency. But the opposite end of that was when he'd be the only offensive sparkplug when Z got in foul trouble early and when Lebron would be easing into his role as the game developed. I simply don't trust Haslem to be able to create his own offense like Drew has the ability to do (at least more so then most). Haslem has a great midrange jumper, and playing opposite of Z i'm sure he'd flourish, but unless Haslem is a huge defensive upgrade (i don't know...i didn't see enough of him), then I think we're spending money that could be better spent elsewhere.

2.) Not resigning Traylor.

My Take: He was a stud at the end of the season. One of the only consistent players we had on our bench. That midrange jumper was incredibly reliable. And for the 1.76 million he would have cost, he was a steal. I know we needed every last cent we could get, but if you asked me who I would rather have: Traylor and 4.14 million, or Haslem for 6 mill a year, I'd take Traylor in a second


Those concerns being said, I love the signing of Hughes. He was my favorite. If were going to overpay, which we had to this summer, we may as well get the most well rounded guy. He can rebound, pass, defend, and spell the point. The others were all inferior to Hughes in that regard. And in his defense as has been pointed out in a few other posts, when Hughes takes just a step inside the arc, his accuracy was near flawless. I expect his percentage to be about 30% this season, now that his thumb has had time to heal. He was almost at 35% last year before that injury.

Thank you moderators and creators for making a forum where I don't have to wallow through the trolls and generally ignorant posters that a forum like ESPN has.

 

[E-Light]

Powerforwards are a dime a dozen, which is why drew is considered expendable at any time, especially on his rookie contract.

People consider haslem to be more consistent, and a better fit next to Z. Not nessesarily haslem is better than gooden, or gooden doesn't have the potential to trump haslem.

 

[d3]

see the problem is , we dont know how much drew will want next year, if its more then 7 mill i say we get haslem right now. Haslem is a better defensive player, with a more flawless offensive game ,like i read somewhere on these forums, drew dosent contest enough shots to be considered a defensive PF, he gets alot of his points doing dity work

Haslem can step out and hit the 15 footer, drew has very good form, but he just cant do it.

I love drew, but i hate his inconsistency.

 

[Glen Infante]

Nice first post midget.

Drew Gooden definatly deserves some respect. But respect has to definatly be earned before we hand it to him.

Drew's stat line last year was solid as he was coming off the best season of his career. But there was little things that he does on the court that annoys the hell out of me.

-His shot selection

-His air head defensive mistakes

-Not boxing out

-Being very thin

-Not beleiving in himself

-he pouts


Given that he is young, he will ultimantly carry these characteristics for a couple more years. He is a good double double guy, but he is definatly a replacable PF because he is strickly offensive minded.

With Zydrunas looking to be re-signed, the Cavaliers would benifit more with a tougher and young PF who will concentrate souly on defense and rebounding.

With Drew on the court, he is going to look to score. That would be very helpfull off the bench if Udonis comes into town. But if we certainly do sign Udonis, we would have 3 PF's, (sorta like the Knicks).

That would make Drew expendable for a trade package for a backup center. Because we all know that Anderson Varejao is our PF in the future.

 

[d3]

Drew should really hit the weight room, his arms are so damn skinny for a PF

 

[cavincali]

you also have to remeber who haslem was playing next to. shaq makes everyone better, just look at damon jones. he gets a lot of easy buckets due to the presence of shaq, so dont quote haslem as being truely consistant.

 

[CBBI]

Gooden is a moron, plain and simple.

The guy forgets to box out, forgets to rotate, forgets the plays, forgets to grab rebounds with two hands.

He's just a dummy.

 

[PIP]

his rotation drove me nuts-- he just didn't seem to know what was going to happen out there.

he was never one step ahead- like you need to be-- that is what excites me about LeBRON'S potential in terms of defense..

he has the one step ahead, and the insticts in the passing lanes (that's a start) although (PRINCE ABUSED HIM when he went to his right) that will be remembered for a looooooong time

but back to drew.. i would love to have drew be our scoring force of the bench, he would make an incredible anotino mcdyess type 6th man... but yet again, A-MAC plays "d"

 

[King]

I like Gooden but I honestly dont think hes that good of a fit in our starting lineup anymore. With whatever pg we sign, Hughes, LBJ, and Z we have plenty of scoring in the starting unit. We need a pf out there that does the dirty work.

A tough player that will play D, rebound, block shots, and play off other players would be perfect for us. Drew does some of those things, but he mostly looks to score points and his D is below average. It seems like Drew needs a lot of passes and some plays run for him to score a lot of points. I think Haslem is a lot better at finding ways to score without getting a lot of passes or plays run for him, he plays more within the offense. Drew could fit well as a sparkplug off the bench.

Im not really for trading Drew, but I dont see him as part of our future plans. Hes due for a contract extension soon and we wont have much money to sign him next offseason. I think some teams will be dishing out big money offers for him. He's young, athletic, a regular double double guy, talented, and full of potential. Teams are going to be paying big bucks for him. He's not worth it, but I can see teams overpaying him and giving him a Boozer-like contract. With AV showing a lot of promise and him no longer fitting well with the starting lineup, I dont see him in a cavs uni for much longer. I wouldnt be too upset to see him traded for a less talented guy that does dirty work like PJ Brown.

I do agree with you about Drew not getting the respect he deserved though Midget. Welcome to the boards.

 

[Mac]

What about A Mac???

Ill give Gooden respect..he has some good offensive moves, he can be a hustler, but he get's into his zone and he thinks he is Skip to my Lou throwing behind the back passes and that's why I dont trust him with 35+ min a night.

Like Ive been saying, if would accept the role, put him on the bench and he would still get 12-7/8 and be up there for 6thg man of the year and be a big part of this team.

But he has to understand that, and if we can get that through his head, he could be a big important peice to this team.

 

[CavsTalk]

So A mac your saying Gooden needs to respond the same way Ricky D did in Boston... accept his role and punish other teams when he's on the floor. Which would be nice, I just don't know if he'll accept it... especially in a contract year.

E-light brought up a good point mentioning that Anderson is our future. So I say get all you can out of Gooden this year (lets say 14 pts and 10 rebs) see what he's asking for ... and if it's to much let him go. We can always pickup a vet. PF to come off the bench. I think were all in agreement that if you looked up Gooden or Haslem in the dictionary that your not going to find any mention of them being All-Stars in this league, but they can be good role players.

Which makes no sense to over-pay a player when you can get Drew and Andy a lot cheaper...

 

[Karma]

People we are looking at winning a championship here. That is our goal. We have a lot of hurdles to face to reach that level. We have in place our star players in LeBron James and Larry Hughes. We have our big influense in the middle, Zydrunas Ilgauskas all but resigned. We have our perimeter shooting all but sealed with Saruanus likely to sign to go with the developing Pavlovic and Jackson. Defensively we have upgraded with Hughes and Eric Snow erasing some bad perimeter defense nightmares of last season. We have a sparkplug off the bench who chases everything down and just gets in peoples face with Varejao. But there is just one thing we are misssing.

We lack a big tough body in the post. A player with size who is willing to throw it around and do the little things that at times go unnoticed. He needs to be able to play defense. He needs to be to hit open jumpers that will be created by Ilgauskas, James and Hughes. This player has to be happy to accept this type of role knowing that his place in the offensive strategy will be only minor. Finding a guy with these qualities is hard to find. Drew does not meet many of these. He meets the criteria of a team needing an athletic forward who needs some scoring. We dont require that. This is not disrespectful to Drew Gooden. Last season we didn't have Hughes, Saruanas or Jackson in the team. We needed Drews offense to help us compete. That is no longer required. The intangibles we need are different and Drew falls short.

Tyrone Hill and Carlos Boozer are two players over the years who have games that almost match what we need. Tyrone struggled though to finish as his jumper was weak. Boozer had the body but refused to use it defensively. He was a headache on defense, and in the end he was not willing to accept the minor role that he was destined for here. So our attention turns to Haslem. Is he a better player then Gooden? Drew is definately more talented. Drew can score in more ways then Udonis could ever dream about. But it is the other areas of his game which makes Haslem more valuable to the Cavalier's then Drew. Both guys can rebound effectively. We know Haslem is content playing a certain role next to a dominent big man. Drew is not the type of person who is as willing. He want to be a bigger factor as his skill set deserves. We just dont need that here. Haslem is not affraid to use his body to defend and scrap. He is a smart defender, which is where the gap between Udonis and Drew becomes apparent. Haslem is solid on his jumper and will rarely take ill advised jumpers away from Ilgauskas, James and Hughes. You get the picture?

This is all about getting the right fit here in Cleveland. We have the major pieces. We now need to compliment them with players that do the little things well that will relieve pressure on our stars. Haslem is that role player. Drew wants to be one of those stars. That is where the problem with Drew lies.

 

[Glen Infante]

And that is why Karma has over 200 rep points.

Well said my man.

 

[Mac]

He has to understand, that him in the starting role hasnt worked out for three different teams and so many coaches.

But he can maxamize his talent by being a spark off the bench. He would still get some good stats and he would have a rep of being a great bench player.

He would still get paid, but nobody is going to shell out huge money for him.

But then again, maybe Drew has really worked on his game and gotten better, we honestly dont know.

He is still young, he still has room to grow and get better.

 

[cdt]

Exactly if you see any of my posts on this subject I said the same things. Drew has better talent and better offensive potential, but with the addition of Hughes and his 22 per game LeBron's 27 Z's 17 and if we land Sarunas he should get about 15, where does that leave Drew? Hardly any touches and Drew pouting at the end of the bench. Drew is an offensive minded powerforward who would rather take jumpers or try to take it to the hole. We don't need more offense, we need a banger who can do what no one else feels like doing which is what Haslem specializes in. He plays hard nosed defense relentless on the boards and I've never seen him gripe complain take plays off or anything. He is just one of those lunch pail hard hat goin to work kinda players. And guys like this aren't a dime a dozen the best defensive young big man is Tyson Chandler IMO and I hear the bulls if pitted to it would take Tyson over Eddy so no hope unless we pull a S&T. But nothin against Drew really he just doesn't fit the mold like Haslem would.