Isaac 3 & D Okoro - A Two Way Playing Basketball Savant

[Cavatt]

"Defenders are making him uncomfortable."??????????

What??????? There is seldom a defender within 6 feet of Okoro, and they are making him uncomfortable??????? Perhaps you are saying he misses human contact because he's left so alone he could be getting lonely.

I could live with his bad offense if at least the defenses paid attention to him, but they don't and it's hurting our offense. It's pretty clear that NBA defenses are pretty comfortable letting Okoro take as many uncontested shots as he wants.

I think he'd prefer a guy up on him than just totally off. It's psychological. Like shooting a too open 3. Much worse to miss that shot, so you start thinking about it. Multiple teams have now identified him as the weak link and the turtle retracts further into his shell

 

[ice cream man]

If the Cavs are “all in” this year or next year, then they’ll trade Okoro, Sexton, picks, etc. In the meantime, since it’s not automatic that you can trade those pieces for a wing, then Okoro has to play like 20 min per night. I don’t care if it’s starting or not. Probably better for the offense for him to NOT share the court with Allen and Mobley. Either way, you have to get him the experience so his game and his confidence will improve.

He needs game shots, not just practice shots. And he still needs to attack when given the chance so he can improve that part of his game as well.

 

[Kouki]

I don't have time for players that are exposed as frauds and play like they know it to be true. Weak minded simps have no place on a good team, case in point, Rodney Hood.

Or he's just self aware of his limitations and is trying to make the correct basketball decision.

Unabashed confidence should not be applauded, it should be called "stupid".

 

[Smooth]

This is how low the bar has been set by the Okoro apologists. You are praising him for having 10 rebounds over 3 games!!! Ten rebounds and 4 steals in THREE GAMES is now impacting the game in other ways!!!
The way Okoro is really impacting the game goes way beyond personal stats. He is impacting it by allowing the opposition to totally ignore him and to place a defender in the lane as a last line of defense. Gobert has probably still not moved from his spot right on the edge of lane where he sat all night as Okoro sat in the corner uncovered. Garland found no openings all night against the Bucks as the lane was packed with defenders as Okoro was ignored. That's the reality of Okoro right now. I'm not saying he's a bust or to cut him, but at this point if they keep running him out there 30 minutes a night it's doing no one any favors.

Take it easy there, champ..

If you go back and look, nothing you said in the second paragraph is different from what I've said in the past... In fact, I've compared it to Baker's inability to threaten teams over the middle/deep is causing teams to sink down and clog the run game, thus having a ripple effect on the offense... Same with Okoro, his inability to keep defenses honest has a ripple effect on driving lanes, passing lanes, and the ability navigate for any of our players...

Point in mentioning his overall statistical performance is the ever evolving complaints about Okoro, relative to what has been said so far... Early in the season it was if he's not going to be an effective shooter, he's going to at least have to make it up for it in other ways and not be a complete zero... It's not crowning him for his stat line but recognition that at the very least, he's not putting up Tony Snell stat lines and finding other ways to contribute while he works through his offensive struggles..

Just for comparison, his periphery stats aren't that far off from wings also in consideration for the 5th pick:

Okoro: .267 FTR, 7.7 TRB%, 9 AST%, 1.7 STL%, 0.8 BLK%, 99 ORTG, 108 DRTG, .049 WS/48, 0.5 WS, -0.2 VORP

Avdija: .242 FTR, 12.1 TRB%, 8.2 AST%, 1.3 STL%, 2.8 BLK%, 109 ORTG, 107 DRTG, .092 WS/48, 1 WS, 0.2 VORP

Vassell: .129 FTR, 7.7 TRB%, 7.8 AST%, 2.2 STL%, 2.4 BLK%, 111 ORTG, 107 DRTG, .114 WS.48, 1.1 WS, 0.2 VORP

So in total, his free throw rate, assist rate, steal rate and defensive rating are all pretty much in line with Vassell and Avdija as we speak... Really where his things split, and where the overall measure of impact is higher with those two, is his offensive stats..

Okoro: 45.1 TS%, .42 3PAr, 11.5 TOV%, 14 USG%

Avdija: 52 TS%, .47 3PAr, 8.2 TOV%, 13.4 USG%

Vassell: 57.8 TS%, .497 3PAr, 6.7 TOV%, 18.4 USG%

Point I'm making, is that outside of his offensive efficiency, his numbers aren't too far off from where other current wings are at the moment... So I think people are getting extemely down on his offensive game, and lumping the rest of his game in with it.. Perhaps I'm just an optimist, but I look at if he can become more efficient offensively and a more effective shooter, he has a play profile that can be successful.. But also understand his offensive/shot efficiency is farther away then what some find as projectable to success.. However, I would point to his 36.6% success rate on corner 3's last year which does give me some hope which is higher than Avdija's last two years, and in line with Vassell current shooting 37.9% from the corner this year..

I guess the other thing I don't quite get is trying to tear down a play or say they they were "right" about drafting/not drafting him.. Regardless of that, he's on the team and the Cavs would be a better team if he's able to reach his potential.. The whole point of this current staff and this season is development, and finding players that fit the future core.. I'm not ready to write Okoro off just yet after 85 games, one college season and not even being 21 yet but we should also recognize players have different developmental paths.. We've been lucky enough to see immediate impact rookies like Mobley and Irving, and have also seen some of the league worst rookies in Garland, only to blossom three years later... I understand the historical precedent with Okoro's performance thus far but I'm pulling for him and do believe in his work ethic and he has a good head on his shoulders... If the Cavs want to see what they have, they have to play him to some extent... Game reps are important, and so is gaining confidence...

 

[daytripper]

I'd start Stevens and have Okoro come off the bench with Rubio, Cedi, and Love. He was playing a bit better in that role earlier in the season when Sexton was still in the starting lineup. Cedi has really begun to blossom now that he has a set role off the bench and isn't expected to do too much. I'd do the same with Okoro. These other lottery picks from last year such as Vassell and Ajdija haven't been forced into big minute starting roles the way Okoro has been with the Cavs.

 

[Man Called X]

Or he's just self aware of his limitations and is trying to make the correct basketball decision.

Unabashed confidence should not be applauded, it should be called "stupid".

Knowing his limitations would imply he knows he's not an NBA player, just an athlete.

I dont want guys that have panic attacks on the bench. I don't want players that look like someone ran over their dog every time they miss a shot.

Kid is trash. Period.

 

[ryanf]

The guy whose confidence is clearly wavering should be told that if two possessions go poorly, he's out?

Yikes.

yes. this is the nba, not a weekend feel good game with your buddies. at some point in time, you will need to deserve the minutes you'll get and the money you get paid. you are asking the whole team to sacrifice just so okoro can play. is it fair to mobley, allen and garland to battle double teams just because the defense is able to throw an extra defender at them since they just ignore okoro in the offense? is it fair for fans to watch someone brick open shots, turn down open shots or get stuffed at the rim? at some point, all of these things catch up and it's not an issue of okoro's confidence anymore, but the whole team's.

 

[Smooth]

I have been pro okoro but he is not getting better and forcing Cavs to go 4 on 5
Stephens gives you same defensive intensity with better shooting. I think I would start Lamar at this point Not much to lose. Not giving up on okoro but it is what it is right now

Just for arguments sake

Stevens: 45.8 DFG%, 46.3 OPP FG%, 36.5 OPP 3P%, 106.8 OPP points per 100 possessions, 0.2 DWS, -0.2 DBPM, 108 DRTG, 0.5 deflections per game, 3.1 contested shots,

Okoro: 40.2 DFG%, 44.5 OPP FG%, 33.1 OPP 3P%, 104.4 OPP points per 100 possessions, 0.6 DWS, 0.1 DBPM, 108 DRTG, 1.2 deflections per game, 5.1 contested shots per game

 

[Smooth]

yes. this is the nba, not a weekend feel good game with your buddies. at some point in time, you will need to deserve the minutes you'll get and the money you get paid. you are asking the whole team to sacrifice just so okoro can play. is it fair to mobley, allen and garland to battle double teams just because the defense is able to throw an extra defender at them since they just ignore okoro in the offense? is it fair for fans to watch someone brick open shots, turn down open shots or get stuffed at the rim? at some point, all of these things catch up and it's not an issue of okoro's confidence anymore, but the whole team's.

You good, fam? This for real?

 

[bigfoot5415]

If the Cavs are “all in” this year or next year, then they’ll trade Okoro, Sexton, picks, etc. In the meantime, since it’s not automatic that you can trade those pieces for a wing, then Okoro has to play like 20 min per night. I don’t care if it’s starting or not. Probably better for the offense for him to NOT share the court with Allen and Mobley. Either way, you have to get him the experience so his game and his confidence will improve.

He needs game shots, not just practice shots. And he still needs to attack when given the chance so he can improve that part of his game as well.

Sexton & Okoro each have minimal value right now. Sexton because of injury & year 5; Okoro because he sucks.

With current trade rules, you would need to find a really good SG under $14.6M to make a trade legal. I am not sure their is a SG making that worth giving up those players & multiple picks who is willing to take on those players & get picks down the road.

 

[daytripper]

Just for arguments sake

Stevens: 45.8 DFG%, 46.3 OPP FG%, 36.5 OPP 3P%, 106.8 OPP points per 100 possessions, 0.2 DWS, -0.2 DBPM, 108 DRTG, 0.5 deflections per game, 3.1 contested shots,

Okoro: 40.2 DFG%, 44.5 OPP FG%, 33.1 OPP 3P%, 104.4 OPP points per 100 possessions, 0.6 DWS, 0.1 DBPM, 108 DRTG, 1.2 deflections per game, 5.1 contested shots per game

More than the stats it's about trying to help Okoro gain back some confidence though.

 

[ryanf]

You good, fam? This for real?

i'm good. it's real though, just keep an eye on this thread

 

[Cassity14]

yes. this is the nba, not a weekend feel good game with your buddies. at some point in time, you will need to deserve the minutes you'll get and the money you get paid. you are asking the whole team to sacrifice just so okoro can play. is it fair to mobley, allen and garland to battle double teams just because the defense is able to throw an extra defender at them since they just ignore okoro in the offense? is it fair for fans to watch someone brick open shots, turn down open shots or get stuffed at the rim? at some point, all of these things catch up and it's not an issue of okoro's confidence anymore, but the whole team's.

I mean, did you watch Sexton and Garland over the first 100 games of their respective careers?

This is what developing raw, young talent looks like in the NBA. It is seldom pretty.

 

[MirORich]

If he's weak minded enough to be upset about little ol X's comments on RCF, he's got bigger problems than his lack of skills.

Rebrand/New User name coming?

 

[Cavatt]

I'd start Stevens and have Okoro come off the bench with Rubio, Cedi, and Love. He was playing a bit better in that role earlier in the season when Sexton was still in the starting lineup. Cedi has really begun to blossom now that he has a set role off the bench and isn't expected to do too much. I'd do the same with Okoro. These other lottery picks from last year such as Vassell and Ajdija haven't been forced into big minute starting roles the way Okoro has been with the Cavs.

It seems like it would make more sense to play him there with Lauri, Love and Cedi. NBA spacing is really important, and we can't just continue to ignore it. I really didn't mind with Darius, Love and Sexton, but with only one of those guys????

I was really keyed in on Vassel and Okoro. Haliburton was the statistical pick there, but I knew they wouldn't take a 3rd pg.

I thought Vassel's shot was suspect, but it is good. He has real SF size which I was also wrong about with Okoro.

I still think Okoro has latent playmaking potential, but I am not sure where that went. He's had 6 assists 3 times while never being a primary playmaker. We just aren't seeing it now.

I think we may not be appreciating how it might be difficult to see and move with 3 big guys on the floor.