Isaac 3 & D Okoro - A Two Way Playing Basketball Savant

[inliner311]

That is the risk, though I feel like his floor is more like Justise Winslow, who's a legit professional basketball player but nothing particularly special. Guys do add catch and shoot jumpers to their repertoire, which imo is all he needs to be a + starter.

Justise Winslow has much better ball handling skills than Okoro. That was something they could at least lean on to try to develop him. The major flaw for Okoro is he really doesn't do anything good on offense so how do you build out his game. If this was a team full of vets they could find ways to give him real easy open looks but Sexton and Garland aren't really there as players to do that.

 

[Alec]

Man this guy sucks

That’s a charitable characterization of his contributions thus far.

 

[weepinwillow]

Justise Winslow has much better ball handling skills than Okoro. That was something they could at least lean on to try to develop him. The major flaw for Okoro is he really doesn't do anything good on offense so how do you build out his game. If this was a team full of vets they could find ways to give him real easy open looks but Sexton and Garland aren't really there as players to do that.

Was he? I thought Winslow was average as a ball handler coming into the league.
Okoro doesn't really do anything on offense. He parks weakside, cuts when the ball swings his way, or keeps the ball moving if he actually gets it (big if). Plays as a 5th option with 2 or 3 guys who consider themselves 1, 1A, 1B options.
He needs a consistent jumper and he probably needs to be encouraged to be more selfish at times. I probably don't know what I'm talking about, but it feels like he has some of the harder things to learn down. Being able to defer and give up your offense I've always found to be the last thing many young guys get. They either have to make the shot, or have to make the assist.
He doesn't look scared or in over his head (like Canadian Bacon did) to me. To me he looks like a rookie having an up and down season as a 5th option on bad team. He also looks like the kind of player who on a good team would look solid because he typically makes good decisions with the ball and on a bad team can look bad because there aren't enough good decisions with the ball being made.
Anyway, he needs a catch and shoot jumper for sure.

 

["MVP"]

John Hollinger in The Athletic assesses all the rookies as we approach the halfway point. He feels this draft class is turning out to be a lot better than expected based on the early returns. He divides the rookies into tiers. Okoro is in Tier 6, titled "Playing a lot doesn't mean playing well."

Isaac Okoro, Cleveland (5th pick) — Okoro will get the benefit of the doubt as a high-wire athlete, particularly since his defense is solid enough to keep him in the lineup while the Cavs wait around on his offense. For instance, how many guys can do this? [Video of a monster dunk off a baseline drive]

That said, the rest of Okoro’s offensive package is … not even really a package. It’s more like a tree sapling that still needs to grow in a forest for 20 years or so, get cut down, dragged down the hill and into town, processed at a mill, converted to cardboard, shipped across the ocean and then shaped into a package. In theory, he can get there, but it all feels a very long way away. Okoro is shooting 25.5 percent from 3 and scoring a meager 11.1 points per 100 possessions; in fairness, he also goes long stretches while hardly touching the ball at all.

More worrying for an alleged athlete, his rebound rate is in LOL territory at a pathetic 4.0 percent — the worst figure of any player 6-5 or taller and the eighth-worst in the league. (But amazingly, only the third-worst in the Cavs starting lineup!) Usually, players with elite athleticism make their first impact in the rebounds/blocks/steals line and then pile skill on top, but Okoro is invisible here. He’s still figuring out how to make his gifts impact the basic stuff.

There it is - no offense other than an occasional spectacular dunk when the seas part and no rebounding. Invisible in terms of scoring, rebounds, blocks, and steals. A lot of guys drafted lower than him doing much better, including Immanuel Quickly, who was drafted 25th by the Nets and is in the first tier along with Ball and Halliburton.

Among other players reputed to be considered by the Cavs at #5, Devin Vassel (11th pick) is in the second tier. Obi Toppin and Deni Avdija, drafted 8th and 9th, are in the fifth tier ("Starting Slowly"). Killian Hayes, the 7th pick, is in Hollinger's 7th tier ("We might have a problem here") while Onyeka Okongwu (6th pick) is in the 8th and lowest tier ("Witness Protection").

So the players drafted 6-9 are either doing worse than Okoro or only slightly better (5th tier).

I know this is off-topic, but putting Okongwu into a "Witness Protection" tier when he's literally played 90 mins in his career coming off a toe injury destroys the credibility of this piece for me. He's looked lost, and I wasn't his biggest supporter, but rookie centers usually look lost...

Okoro's been invisible a lot and his lack of rebounding is a valid concern, but has Vassell really been 4 tiers better than him? I like Vassell, but he plays 17 minutes off the bench and is shooting sub 40% and averaging 5 and 3...

 

[inliner311]

Was he? I thought Winslow was average as a ball handler coming into the league.
Okoro doesn't really do anything on offense. He parks weakside, cuts when the ball swings his way, or keeps the ball moving if he actually gets it (big if). Plays as a 5th option with 2 or 3 guys who consider themselves 1, 1A, 1B options.
He needs a consistent jumper and he probably needs to be encouraged to be more selfish at times. I probably don't know what I'm talking about, but it feels like he has some of the harder things to learn down. Being able to defer and give up your offense I've always found to be the last thing many young guys get. They either have to make the shot, or have to make the assist.
He doesn't look scared or in over his head (like Canadian Bacon did) to me. To me he looks like a rookie having an up and down season as a 5th option on bad team. He also looks like the kind of player who on a good team would look solid because he typically makes good decisions with the ball and on a bad team can look bad because there aren't enough good decisions with the ball being made.
Anyway, he needs a catch and shoot jumper for sure.

Coming into the league, I don't know. I do know once the Heat were pressed into that situation, Winslow played his best when he had to play the point, either as a point guard or point forward. That was a unique situation and those kind of circumstances are hard to recreate. We haven't gotten much of a sample of how he will play in Memphis.

The player that Winslow was in his last year with the Heat would pair up pretty well with Sexton. It might actually allow Sexland to work long term. Maybe Okoro has those traits in him somewhere but usually it take very unique circumstances for them to come out.

That's the thing with Okoro and drafting him #5, if unique circumstances were necessary for the player profile he was projected as, it probably isn't a wise decision to take him that high in the draft. All the good or even decent players that Okoro has been compared to all seem to have very unique circumstances to get them to that point and I just don't see how the Cavs can realistically recreate them to develop Okoro.

 

[weepinwillow]

That's the thing with Okoro and drafting him #5, if unique circumstances were necessary for the player profile he was projected as, it probably isn't a wise decision to take him that high in the draft. All the good or even decent players that Okoro has been compared to all seem to have very unique circumstances to get them to that point and I just don't see how the Cavs can realistically recreate them to develop Okoro.

See, we just differ in opinion on this. I think they took Okoro because he had traits they liked already: BBIQ, athletic ability, work ethic, strong motor on defense.
The other guy they liked was Pat Williams who had a similar profile coming into the NBA only with better measurables and you had to hope 1 year of so-so numbers would make the leap for him too.
I don't think you need unique circumstances for Isaac to start turning a corner. You need his jumper to go down with a little consistency and you need his teammates to feel comfortable passing him the ball. I don't think we need him iso'd up with the Cavs needing him to go get a bucket right now.
I will grant you that I always favor a guy who willingly moves the ball on offense and plays smart defense and probably grant them more leeway than I do for guys who get buckets but don't play a smart game.

 

[Cavatt]

He needs spacing. I said he would do better with NBA spacing, but the CAvs don't have NBA spacing. It's probably worse than he had in college.

As long as Sextonand garland refuse to hoist, he will be stuck in the mud and can't use his biggest strength which is attacking the rim.

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

Hollinger clashed with Lionel Hollins and effectively got their management to move in another direction from him, and then Dave Joerger.

HE GAVE CHANDLER PARSONS A MAX DEAL

His draft picks while in Memphis were: "Jamaal Franklin, Janis Timma, Jordan Adams, Jarell Martin, Wade Baldwin, and Wang Zhelin. He also traded for Fab Melo"

I cant read anything he writes now and not see what he and his formula's did for Memphis. It's not a coincidence that the year he left, their rebuild started showing semblance of direction and has led to the core of young players they are building around now. AFTER he left.

I could care less what he thinks of Okoro or Okongwu

 

[weepinwillow]

"Jamaal Franklin, Janis Timma, Jordan Adams, Jarell Martin, Wade Baldwin, and Wang Zhelin. He also traded for Fab Melo"

Those are some deep dive NBA names!!

 

[foucault87]

Of course its ridiculous. Do people get mad at 28 teams for whiffing on Tony Parker? No. The draft is a process.

I like Bey but no one in the right mind is drafting a guy with the ceiling of a mid tier role player with the fifth pick. Thats what you take in the mid first where he went.

And as I've said at least a dozen times in this thread, its too early. If we aren't a playoff team, I could give less of a shit who looks the best 25 games into their NBA careers. Its year 3 and 4 that matter. Its logic like this that would lead to people dumping Giannis before he ever found his footing. Just awful.


And as far as the scouting department goes, I thinj ours is pretty good. We just keep getting screwed by the lottery. If Altman got his first choice every year, we'd be looking at sexton, hunter, Williams which fits better on paper. I am fine with BPA til you have a real cornerstone

 

["MVP"]

Of course its ridiculous. Do people get mad at 28 teams for whiffing on Tony Parker? No. The draft is a process.

I like Bey but no one in the right mind is drafting a guy with the ceiling of a mid tier role player with the fifth pick. Thats what you take in the mid first where he went.

And as I've said at least a dozen times in this thread, its too early. If we aren't a playoff team, I could give less of a shit who looks the best 25 games into their NBA careers. Its year 3 and 4 that matter. Its logic like this that would lead to people dumping Giannis before he ever found his footing. Just awful.


And as far as the scouting department goes, I thinj ours is pretty good. We just keep getting screwed by the lottery. If Altman got his first choice every year, we'd be looking at sexton, hunter, Williams which fits better on paper. I am fine with BPA til you have a real cornerstone

It's fun being an armchair GM, so I get it, but it's really hard to be too critical of Altman's draft record:

• 2018: Sexton has exceeded all expectations IMO and looks to me like a future all-star. That's phenomenal at 8. SGA made it clear he didn't want to come here and MPJ was red flagged for his back issues (and struggles mightily with consistency).
• 2019: This was just a reaaallly bad draft after Zion & Ja. Hunter is a better fit & prospect than Garland, but he was off the board. The next picks were Culver, Coby White, Jaxson Hayes, Rui, and Reddish. To me, Garland is clearly a superior talent to all of those guys. It was a tough spot after taking Sexton the year before, but I still think Garland was the right pick even if Sexland is split up at some point. Windler, we'll see (Keldon Johnson would have been a home run here, but was also very underwhelming at Kentucky), and KPJ was a worthwhile talent gamble that just didn't work out.
• 2020: Okoro has had an underwhelming start, but the same is true of Sexton and Garland (and most rookies). Many on this board were arguing for Okongwu and Avdija, who have been similarly underwhelming. I still love the long-term upside from Okoro. Let's just give him some time.

An alternate universe could have us with SGA, Hunter, and Pat Will or Sexton, Hunter, and Haliburton... But most alternatives would leave us with something much less appetizing than what we currently have, such as Kevin Knox, Culver, and Toppin....

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Your scouts have to be better than that,, for gods sake thats what they do for a living.
If Saddiq Bey turns out to be better than Okoro then they screwed up badly.

Bey was the 19th pick. So if the Cavs' scouts screwed up so did the scouts for the next 13 teams, especially the teams that passed on him at 16, 17, and 18. You could argue that if the Pistons had the 5th pick they would not have taken Bey. They might not have taken him with the 15th pick for that matter.

As for Okoro, I believe he will benefit a lot from having the same starting lineup for a couple of months, if that ever happens. The lineup has been changing continually with all the injuries and now with Drummond's situation. We played a number games without a point guard and now we're playing without a power forward, at least until Sunday when Love could return.

Take the Bucks, for example, who have played 29 games. Three players started 29 games, one started 28, and one started 23. A total of 7 players have started and one of them only started one game. For the Cavs, 13 players have started at least one game and only three players have started more than 18.

Rookies need stability. Okoro is playing in a revolving door of lineups. That being said, he needs to get more aggressive on the defensive glass and more aggressive in taking it to the hole when he gets a crease and stepping into 3-pointers when he has time and space.

 

[WorldFreeB]

Bey was the 19th pick. So if the Cavs' scouts screwed up so did the scouts for the next 13 teams, especially the teams that passed on him at 16, 17, and 18. You could argue that if the Pistons had the 5th pick they would not have taken Bey. They might not have taken him with the 15th pick for that matter.

As for Okoro, I believe he will benefit a lot from having the same starting lineup for a couple of months, if that ever happens. The lineup has been changing continually with all the injuries and now with Drummond's situation. We played a number games without a point guard and now we're playing without a power forward, at least until Sunday when Love could return.

Take the Bucks, for example, who have played 29 games. Three players started 29 games, one started 28, and one started 23. A total of 7 players have started and one of them only started one game. For the Cavs, 13 players have started at least one game and only three players have started more than 18.

Rookies need stability. Okoro is playing in a revolving door of lineups. That being said, he needs to get more aggressive on the defensive glass and more aggressive in taking it to the hole when he gets a crease and stepping into 3-pointers when he has time and space.

Really all that matters in the end is who takes the best players,,,it doesn't really matter if they are picked at 1 or 31...
If the cavs scout better then you deal for another first rounder and take that bonus talent there.
I hope for the best for Okoro i really do,,,I want him to succeed. Better strategic planning into the long term future of the team
should have gone into our last 3 lottery picks....we took two tiny guards and say what you want but I think the Okoro pick is worse than
Sexton or Garland. Its going to take at least a couple years to see Okoro show much offensively. By that time he will probably be coming off the
bench or even possibly traded. He does have skill defensively but they are putting him on guys that are just abusing him with
their length.

 

[Futuredome]

Basically a undersized wing that can't shoot. My gawd Dan.................

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

Watch this video and tell me you don't see Isaac Okoro. On both ends

This was Phills first year as a full-time starter. 25 years old. Averaged 11 ppg on 41% shooting and 34% 3pt

Phills made Jordan's night hell in this game. But watch him on both ends not just on defense (Okoro looks like 25 yr old 4th yr vet Phills already as a 19yr old) but also watch him on offense. He was a straight line, get to the rim guy on offense at this point in his development. Fratello ran a ball control (thats putting it generous as I remember about 10 games that year in the 70pt scoring range)

Man... watching Okoro tonight and I literally just had Bobby Phills deja-vu