John Beilein: Continuing his education

[bigdog123]

I turned the game off at half time. It was the worst half of basketball I've ever seen outside of all star games. Whoever had the ball dribbled it until he was able to cast up a shot. Was there any coaching at all going on at the offensive end. Come to think of it, the whole thing was quite offensive. We were playing the freaking Timberwolves for heaven's sake... they really stink, but looked like a legitimate NBA team against the Cavs.

 

[Man Called X]

We're the 3rd worst team in the league by record. How's that magical system working out for us so far?

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

We're the 3rd worst team in the league by record. How's that magical system working out for us so far?

He bad.
His read and react strategy doesn't work when he has a lot of low IQ players. They need to be told what to do and when to pass. They looked madly confused last night.

 

[Man Called X]

He bad.
His read and react strategy doesn't work when he has a lot of low IQ players. They need to be told what to do and when to pass. They looked madly confused last night.

So a system no one seems to know, robotic substitutions, and doesn't hold players accountable.

So basically we hired a 60 year old white Lue.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Beilein needs to focus on better defense. An opposing guard should not be able to dribble around a pick and come out with a wide open lane to the rim for an uncontested layup. If his man is going to follow him around the pick then the Cavs big man needs to stop the ball.

Also, too much dribbling by Garland and Sexton. They also need to get better when they get dribble penetration into the paint. Too many blocked layups, stolen passes, and turnovers when they attempt bounce passes at close range in traffic. And the bigs need to get better at catching passes from teammates less than six feet away, both bounce and no-bounce. Too many fumbled passes in front of the rim.

 

[Derek]

So a system no one seems to know, robotic substitutions, and doesn't hold players accountable.

So basically we hired a 60 year old white Lue.

Those are kind of the opposite of the complaints I have heard so far.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

He bad.
His read and react strategy doesn't work when he has a lot of low IQ players. They need to be told what to do and when to pass. They looked madly confused last night.

I don't know enough about Beilein to know whether or not that is true. I'll just say that college coaches have the luxury of being able to recruit specific types of players who will work best within that particular system. NBA coaches are handed a mass of talent and expected to figure out what system will work best with those particular players. It's the players that (should) dictate the system in the NBA, not the other way around.

Again, I don't know enough about Beilein to know whether that's what's going on with the Cavs. Just pointing it out as a something that may potentially be an issue for some coaches transitioning from college to the NBA.

 

[cavaliers421]

I don't know enough about Beilein to know whether or not that is true. I'll just say that college coaches have the luxury of being able to recruit specific types of players who will work best within that particular system. NBA coaches are handed a mass of talent and expected to figure out what system will work best with those particular players. It's the players that (should) dictate the system in the NBA, not the other way around.

Again, I don't know enough about Beilein to know whether that's what's going on with the Cavs. Just pointing it out as a something that may potentially be an issue for some coaches transitioning from college to the NBA.

I agree with this and it seemed to be the reason Beilein has been so anxious for Windler to get back on the Court. In summer league, the first thing I noticed about Windler is how much he moved off the ball, which is something Beilein is looking for and not getting from many of the other players on the team (who he did not "pick"). Although he can sometimes be stagnant with the ball, Kevin Porter also seems to fit this mold as I believe he has been a part of more back door layups this season than anyone on the team. I do not say this to take any blame off of Beilein, but I am hopeful the on court product will be less hard on the eyes once he has more players on the Court who fit his style.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I do not say this to take any blame off of Beilein, but I am hopeful the on court product will be less hard on the eyes once he has more players on the Court who fit his style.

The problem I have with that is that talent is at a premium in the NBA, and if you're excluding/overlooking more talented players because they don't fit your style, you're going to be operating systemically from a talent deficit. And that makes it extremely hard to win.

The best coaches change their system to fit the players rather than shuffling players in and out to fit a system.

 

[cavaliers421]

The best coaches change their system to fit the players rather than shuffling players in and out to fit a system.

Completely agree. He is definitely having a harder time doing that than I anticipated, although I admittedly watch very little college basketball outside of the tournament.

 

[Derek]

Completely agree. He is definitely having a harder time doing that than I anticipated, although I admittedly watch very little college basketball outside of the tournament.

I don't know how we can make this judgment when we have the least talented roster in the league.

Seems to me like his main focus is trying to develop young guys, thus letting guys play through their mistakes instead of yanking them, and holding everyone accountable in order to develop the culture he desires.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Seems to me like his main focus is trying to develop young guys, thus letting guys play through their mistakes instead of yanking them, and holding everyone accountable in order to develop the culture he desires.

I get that. But I think there is a tension between "letting guys play through their mistakes instead of yanking them", and "holding everyone accountable". If guys get to keep playing no matter how often they break off/disrupt a play, or miss an open guy, are they really being held accountable?

It's just weird. I don't think I've ever seen a coach watch the same guy repeatedly make the same mistakes, and not pull him off the floor/field for a "teachable moment." But maybe that's just not Beilein's style.

 

[I'mWithDan]

So a system no one seems to know, robotic substitutions, and doesn't hold players accountable.

So basically we hired a 60 year old white Lue.

He's been here a few months, with a roster full of players he didn't choose. I'm not sure what people expect? Just look at his track record resurrecting programs and players.....he's unequivocally a good coach.

This is going to be a generally lost year. Probably next year as well. It seems like younger players like Sexton, Garland, MPJ, etc. are getting more attention and more leash and veteran players are being rubbed the wrong way by that, which I get.

Belein's job, at this point though, is to see what longer term answers we have.....and it's possible that is none. We really just don't have good, young, NBA talent. When Sexton appears to be the best player, that will stick long term and he's a 6th man type on a good team, you are in a lot of trouble from a talent standpoint.

There's certainly things he can do better and will learn to do better.......but he's developed lots of NBA talent, he's revived awful situations, he's really evolved as a coach in ways very, very few guys do.......maybe give him more than 5 months to decide if he's the problem? My guess is he is not....but I understand the frustration on some levels.

 

[Derek]

I get that. But I think there is a tension between "letting guys play through their mistakes instead of yanking them", and "holding everyone accountable". If guys get to keep playing no matter how often they break off/disrupt a play, or miss an open guy, are they really being held accountable?

It's just weird. I don't think I've ever seen a coach watch the same guy repeatedly make the same mistakes, and not pull him off the floor/field for a "teachable moment." But maybe that's just not Beilein's style.

Limiting playing time isn't the only way to hold people accountable. Heck, the biggest gripe we've heard about him so far is that he doesn't pull punches during film sessions regardless of who you are and what your standing is on the team.

The games don't really matter at all right now, and that's probably where the disconnect comes with the veterans. The games are basically glorified practices. The easiest way to teach young players is to let them play through mistakes, and show it to them on film later.

 

[Rich]

Those are kind of the opposite of the complaints I have heard so far.

Rotations are the go-to complaint.

I'm pretty sure Ive seen Los complain that his substitutions are both set in stone AND random.

Its remarkable.

Team is missing its 1st, 2nd, and 3rd big man, just traded its most productive guard, and was already talent deprived, and people think theres some magical substitution pattern that can mask all of that.