John-Blair Bickerstaff: Currently The 6th Longest Tenured Head Coach

[Rich]

I swear my dude up here just checks the box score and play-by-play after the game.

Telling me Durant got assists by passing to Kyrie last night of all nights...whew.


Yes a lot of guys got assists passing to Kyrie last night as he drained incredibly difficult shot after difficult shot.

You can't go to the box-score +/- for one player and then ignore it for another.

If Stevens was bad because his +/- was bad, and that's it, then by default LeVert was good.

 

[Rich]

I'd also like to point out the absolute folly of checking the boxscore to determine if a player was defending well or not when guarding KEVIN DURANT.

This is a guy who scored 50 in game 7 last year being guarded by Middleton and Giannis all night.

 

[Rich]

Fwiw I thought the Cavs were about as good as they can be defensively w/o Allen.

Durant and Irving were both hitting very tough shots all night.

Thought Bickerstaff overcompensated which led to a ton of easy backdoor dunks but it likely wouldn't have mattered. If they had continued to just play them straight up they probably keep scoring.



But Lamar Stevens should be playing more. Telling me the roster construction needs work is both correct and pointless right now. JBB has the team he has and needs to coach it. Not the team he wishes he had or the one I wish he had.

Absolutely no reason Lamar shouldn't be eating almost all of Okoros minutes at this point.

 

[CavsKermit]

Willfully obtuse

Does it factor into your breakdown that Lamar Stevens was part of a sub pattern that took Mobley, Okoro, Markk and Levert OFF THE FLOOR?

Nah, ok then

How about the fact that the foursome was replaced by Love, Osman, Rondo and Stevens while Garland who was the entire offense for the first 9 minutes of the game was the lone tired starter on the floor.

When Durant was getting those assists at the end of the first quarter, you are aware that he's making a pass to a teammate who is scoring on their defender either by scheme (JBB schemed hard doubles and abandoned cutters leading to assist opportunities for patient offensive players, but lets not consider that since it doesnt show up on play by play breakdown) or will, right? But by all means, let's discard what Stevens was able to do playing him straight up individually with Mobley and Brown behind him in game 81 against Durant, and let's instead cite what Durant was able to do with no Mobley or Brown on the floor and a defensive schematic adjustment that forced him to pass to wide open teammates instead as a indicator that Stevens was just playing terrible D in two 3 minute stints against Durant last night.

First off, if you're complaining about a guy getting pulled after seven minutes, then his performance in the game he got pulled out of is a tad more relevant than some late regular season one he did not get pulled out of. Second, if Stevens is our most effective defender against Durant (he's not, it's Mobley and it's not even close), then why are we having to run hard doubles at him with Stevens on him? Just let Stevens lock him up. Third, Love and Rondo were net positive on the game, Cedi was only -2, so the fact that Stevens was -12 with them suggests maybe the problem wasn't with the other guys in the rotation.

If people want to believe that guys like Stevens and Cedi cannot fail, but can only be failed, there's nothing I can do to change their mind. But they're not good. They're limited offensively, they provide zero spacing (which really matters when you start stacking them with other non-shooters), and people on this board vastly overrate their defensive prowess. Changing coaches isn't going to change that.

One of things that you recognize by visiting other team's boards is that every fanbase overrates its eighth, ninth, and tenth guys on the roster, and every fanbase insists that if the coach had only used the correct substitution patterns, they would've won the game.

 

[CavsKermit]

I'd also like to point out the absolute folly of checking the boxscore to determine if a player was defending well or not when guarding KEVIN DURANT.

This is a guy who scored 50 in game 7 last year being guarded by Middleton and Giannis all night.

Yes, why would I bring that up in response to someone claiming he was the most effective defender against Durant and it was inexplicable that he got yanked after only 7 minutes. It's the postseason. Ty Lue yanked Kyrie Irving against the Pacers in a game in the third quarter and never put him back in.

 

[BigZ94]

First off, if you're complaining about a guy getting pulled after seven minutes, then his performance in the game he got pulled out of is a tad more relevant than some late regular season one he did not get pulled out of. Second, if Stevens is our most effective defender against Durant (he's not, it's Mobley and it's not even close), then why are we having to run hard doubles at him with Stevens on him? Just let Stevens lock him up. Third, Love and Rondo were net positive on the game, Cedi was only -2, so the fact that Stevens was -12 with them suggests maybe the problem wasn't with the other guys in the rotation.

If people want to believe that guys like Stevens and Cedi cannot fail, but can only be failed, there's nothing I can do to change their mind. But they're not good. They're limited offensively, they provide zero spacing (which really matters when you start stacking them with other non-shooters), and people on this board vastly overrate their defensive prowess. Changing coaches isn't going to change that.

One of things that you recognize by visiting other team's boards is that every fanbase overrates its eighth, ninth, and tenth guys on the roster, and every fanbase insists that if the coach had only used the correct substitution patterns, they would've won the game.

Yes Cedi and Stevens can suck, but recently Okoro just always sucks. So play the guys who suck a little less. Our game plan of running hard doubles hurts us more then helps us imo. Guys will start missing contested jumpers, they won’t miss open dunks and layups. Kyrie and Durant had a stupid amount of assists along with their high scoring games. Remember Durants 50 point game against the bucks last season? He missed the final game winner (airball) cause he was simply exhausted.. even super human guys like Kyrie and Durant get tired, but sending stupid double teams at them and constantly giving bums like Drummond, Claxton and Brown open layups and dunks is not how you beat the Nets..

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

First off, if you're complaining about a guy getting pulled after seven minutes, then his performance in the game he got pulled out of is a tad more relevant than some late regular season one he did not get pulled out of.

Straw man. I'm not complaining about him getting pulled after seven minutes, Im pointing out how obtuse your play by play stat watching and +/- referencing is without regard for what JBB did rotationally and schematically to impact the game

Second, if Stevens is our most effective defender against Durant (he's not, it's Mobley and it's not even close), then why are we having to run hard doubles at him with Stevens on him?

I agree with you 100% (which pains me to do so because its not a novel thought to pedestrians like you and I, but it is to the guy in the first chair). But guess who either doesnt want to or doesnt know how to adjust his rotation so that he could use Mobley against him? Moses Brown guarding Drummond makes it possible for Mobley to not only cover Durant but then also cover like an entire offense because he goes back to being the versatile unicorn on defense that he was before Allen was injured. The next best thing is Stevens guarding him one on one since the coach refuses to make that adjustment to his starting rotation at the expense of Okoro's minutes. Instead we're watching Markkanen try his best to emulate Mobley on D, while Mobley tries his best to emulate Allen on D and Okoro then tries his best to emulate Markannen and so on...

Third, Love and Rondo were net positive on the game, Cedi was only -2, so the fact that Stevens was -12 with them suggests maybe the problem wasn't with the other guys in the rotation.

What in the hell does this mean? Are you implying Love and Rondo were lock down defenders? You obviously didn't watch the game

When that second unit came in and we were doing this gimmicky "2-3 zone to man" mid-possession shit to try to throw off one of the best players in the world (without our most impactful zone defender in Mobley on the floor, again) that is when Kevin Durant got 3 assists as a result of Love and Rondo hard trapping. How does that register for the +/- you keep referencing in-leu of actually citing gameflow/play breakdowns? The entire Brooklyn offense was being run through the guy Stevens was guarding while the scheme made it possible for him to carve up our defense, do you understand what usage is and how Kevin Durant playing like LeBron did in Cleveland last month, reflects poorly on the guy who is schematically tasked with being the first line of defense against a patient offensive player who can easily carve our elementary scheme apart?

Mobley on Durant would have garnered the same results if the 4 guys behind him were gimmicky switching between zone and man mid-possession like he's not Kevin Durant. Felt like I was watching Peyton Manning carve up Polamalu giving these gimmicky pre-snap blitz bluffs. It was terrible.

Do you know who KD is? He didnt break a sweat while eating that gimmick alive

I feel sick to my stomach that I've wasted as much mental capacity defending Lamar Stevens when I'm not even a fan of him, I'm simply recognizing that he's another in a pattern of mismanaged players/rotations that lead to loses solely based on bad coaching in games that are winnable

 

[CavsKermit]

Yes Cedi and Stevens can suck, but recently Okoro just always sucks. So play the guys who suck a little less. Our game plan of running hard doubles hurts us more then helps us imo. Guys will start missing contested jumpers, they won’t miss open dunks and layups. Kyrie and Durant had a stupid amount of assists along with their high scoring games. Remember Durants 50 point game against the bucks last season? He missed the final game winner (airball) cause he was simply exhausted.. even super human guys like Kyrie and Durant get tired, but sending stupid double teams at them and constantly giving bums like Drummond, Claxton and Brown open layups and dunks is not how you beat the Nets..

In terms of Okoro, he went 0-3 but stayed out at the perimeter. LeVert started 1-9 and drove into the lane ten times in a row, which not only resulted in misses, but also caused the defense to collapse into the paint every time. My big issue with Stevens is he can't stay in front of faster guards and wings. People compare him to Okoro on that end and they're not comparable.

As far as hard doubles, none of this is happening in isolation and all of it is a pick your poison type stuff. Do you want to get beat by Durant and Kyrie or do you want to make the Nets role players beat you? I think most coaches would take the latter. But Lauri isn't Allen, and if you're going to ask him to handle Drummond, and rotate to protect the rim, it's not going to end well. Mobley is still too light to handle Drummond as an assignment. Point being, that if you want to play these guys straight up, with Mobley, on Durant, then there's no help coming off of the pick and roll. If it does come, Drummond is sitting there waiting for an easy bunny.

The biggest difference in the game was they have four or five guys who could hit open threes, and besides Garland who is usually running the offense, we've basically got two who are even a credible threat to hit from out there. When there's consistently four defenders in or around the painted area, the other team is being very clear that they don't think you'll hit those shots.

 

[CavsKermit]

Straw man. I'm not complaining about him getting pulled after seven minutes, Im pointing out how obtuse your play by play stat watching and +/- referencing is without regard for what JBB did rotationally and schematically to impact the game


I agree with you 100% (which pains me to do so because its not a novel thought to pedestrians like you and I, but it is to the guy in the first chair). But guess who either doesnt want to or doesnt know how to adjust his rotation so that he could use Mobley against him? Moses Brown guarding Drummond makes it possible for Mobley to not only cover Durant but then also cover like an entire offense because he goes back to being the versatile unicorn on defense that he was before Allen was injured. The next best thing is Stevens guarding him one on one since the coach refuses to make that adjustment to his starting rotation at the expense of Okoro's minutes. Instead we're watching Markkanen try his best to emulate Mobley on D, while Mobley tries his best to emulate Allen on D and Okoro then tries his best to emulate Markannen and so on...



What in the hell does this mean? Are you implying Love and Rondo were lock down defenders? You obviously didn't watch the game

When that second unit came in and we were doing this gimmicky "2-3 zone to man" mid-possession shit to try to throw off one of the best players in the world (without our most impactful zone defender in Mobley on the floor, again) that is when Kevin Durant got 3 assists as a result of Love and Rondo hard trapping. How does that register for the +/- you keep referencing in-leu of actually citing gameflow/play breakdowns? The entire Brooklyn offense was being run through the guy Stevens was guarding while the scheme made it possible for him to carve up our defense, do you understand what usage is and how Kevin Durant playing like LeBron did in Cleveland last month, reflects poorly on the guy who is schematically tasked with being the first line of defense against a patient offensive player who can easily carve our elementary scheme apart?

Mobley on Durant would have garnered the same results if the 4 guys behind him were gimmicky switching between zone and man mid-possession like he's not Kevin Durant. Felt like I was watching Peyton Manning carve up Polamalu giving these gimmicky pre-snap blitz bluffs. It was terrible.

Do you know who KD is? He didnt break a sweat while eating that gimmick alive

I feel sick to my stomach that I've wasted as much mental capacity defending Lamar Stevens when I'm not even a fan of him, I'm simply recognizing that he's another in a pattern of mismanaged players/rotations that lead to loses solely based on bad coaching in games that are winnable

So a few points: Bickerstaff didn't enter Love, Rondo, Stevens, and Cedi into the game as Green Tide second wave. They were staggered. K. Love was first guy off the bench with more than six minutes left in the quarter (for Lauri who was already in foul trouble). Cedi came in at the 4:26 mark (for Okoro who looked a little shook), then at 3:52 Rondo (for Mobley) and Stevens (for LeVert) came in. In the second quarter, Stevens played with the starters. That sub pattern was in response to Patty Mills and Claxton coming in for Drummond and Curry (Love was pretty much winning the Drummond matchup)

I'll go back and watch the first quarter again, but I was pretty sure that the zone didn't really show up until after the Nets blew the lead up to 20 points at the end of the first. Call it a gimmick if you like, but it didn't go so great when they tried defending straight up. If we had Allen to hold down Drummond and help at the rim, maybe we could've left Mobley on an island on Durant. But we didn't have Allen. Asking Lauri to hold down Drummond and help at the rim clearly wasn't working. Yes, I know who Durant is. I also know who Kyrie is particularly once he gets it going. This was all pick your poison type stuff, and I'm not seeing any recognition of that from Bickerstaff's critics, just a lot of magical thinking - like leaving Stevens on Durant one on one (which again, I'm not positive didn't happen in the 1st quarter when the wheels came off).

Also, that zone was effective at times throughout the game. Rondo and Love were able to narrow the gap in the second half running it, and believe it or not, Rondo actually did play good defense on Kyrie especially when it came to depriving him of the ball. Love's obviously not a good defender but his ability to space the floor actually enabled us to run something resembling an offense. Given that and his rebounding, it's not surprising to me that he added more value, at least in that game, then the third or fourth wing who can't make a shot outside of 15 feet driving to lane, and collapsing the defense, for the umpteenth time.

 

[foucault87]

Last night was a great example of why you need to have XOs at a high level in the NBA. Our schemes are very basic. Things worked because of the personnel that we have, not because of any tactical brilliance.

Allen is probably the 2nd or 3rd best backline defender in the NBA behind Rudy and Brook. Markk is super long, so even if he isn't the most agile, he can apply a ton of pressure on the lead ball handler. Okoro/Stevens are both stout man defenders. Kevin Love is a monster drawing charges. Wade is always in the right place. And of course, Mobley is a unicorn who's anticipation and ability to read the floor on D is otherworldly. If we had tried to run the same scheme with I dont know...Hassan Whiteside, LNJ, and your favorite bad defensive forward with long arms (I like Anthony Randolph personally), it wouldn't work. As is, I think we need a bulldog PoA defender who can get around screens. Both Okoro and Stevens do reasonably well vs iso against different types of players, but we dont have anyone like a Caruso or Jrue who is adept at dodging around screens and just staying glued to their man.

On the offensive side of the ball, hoo boy. I dont think we were ever better than the 12th ranked offense or so this year. The only reason our offense has worked AT ALL this year is that Allen is an elite rim runner, Garland is an all around brilliant offensive player, and we had the 2nd best passer in the NBA for the first third of the season. The offense looks like the worst parts of a 90s basketball game. A single PnR with 3 dudes standing around. Someone driving into the paint, passing it back out and watching another guy do the same. Garland, Rubio, and Mobley are all great at seizing openings from the few gaps that this opened up. Garland and Rubio both actually misdirected a bit and gave us some passing juice. LeVert, Sexton, and Garland all had the ability to create when for themselves. This is valuable skill when the play breaks down, but sometimes it feels like its 90% of our offense.

Do we have movement ever? Why do we only ever have one action. Its PnR with two guys and everyone else does nothing. Why not run Spain? Why not run some backscreens for our shooters to curl from? Why not run a high post look with Mobley and have our shooters do that double screen the Warriors always do with Steph and Klay? Why not plan a few Iverson cuts or backcuts or anything?

JBB has done a great job with keeping up team morale but I am pretty sure there are high school coaches with more advanced playbooks. We need a major tactical upgrade to see this team level up.

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

I like Anthony Randolph personally

@foucault87 have I ever told you how brilliant your basketball mind is?

I mean, this just warmed my heart

You, sir, are a basketball watching savant.

 

[MD13]

Straw man. I'm not complaining about him getting pulled after seven minutes, Im pointing out how obtuse your play by play stat watching and +/- referencing is without regard for what JBB did rotationally and schematically to impact the game


I agree with you 100% (which pains me to do so because its not a novel thought to pedestrians like you and I, but it is to the guy in the first chair). But guess who either doesnt want to or doesnt know how to adjust his rotation so that he could use Mobley against him? Moses Brown guarding Drummond makes it possible for Mobley to not only cover Durant but then also cover like an entire offense because he goes back to being the versatile unicorn on defense that he was before Allen was injured. The next best thing is Stevens guarding him one on one since the coach refuses to make that adjustment to his starting rotation at the expense of Okoro's minutes. Instead we're watching Markkanen try his best to emulate Mobley on D, while Mobley tries his best to emulate Allen on D and Okoro then tries his best to emulate Markannen and so on...



What in the hell does this mean? Are you implying Love and Rondo were lock down defenders? You obviously didn't watch the game

When that second unit came in and we were doing this gimmicky "2-3 zone to man" mid-possession shit to try to throw off one of the best players in the world (without our most impactful zone defender in Mobley on the floor, again) that is when Kevin Durant got 3 assists as a result of Love and Rondo hard trapping. How does that register for the +/- you keep referencing in-leu of actually citing gameflow/play breakdowns? The entire Brooklyn offense was being run through the guy Stevens was guarding while the scheme made it possible for him to carve up our defense, do you understand what usage is and how Kevin Durant playing like LeBron did in Cleveland last month, reflects poorly on the guy who is schematically tasked with being the first line of defense against a patient offensive player who can easily carve our elementary scheme apart?

Mobley on Durant would have garnered the same results if the 4 guys behind him were gimmicky switching between zone and man mid-possession like he's not Kevin Durant. Felt like I was watching Peyton Manning carve up Polamalu giving these gimmicky pre-snap blitz bluffs. It was terrible.

Do you know who KD is? He didnt break a sweat while eating that gimmick alive

I feel sick to my stomach that I've wasted as much mental capacity defending Lamar Stevens when I'm not even a fan of him, I'm simply recognizing that he's another in a pattern of mismanaged players/rotations that lead to loses solely based on bad coaching in games that are winnable

@RchfldCavRaised you know how much I appreciate your opinions. And this isn't a post to defend JBB, god knows I've been getting more progressively frustrated with his decision making (or lack thereof) in the last few months of the season. That said...

I think everyone's in a position where JBB is getting blamed for damned if you do, damned if you don't decisions he's forced to make because of the roster's limitations. Playing Moses Brown is a perfect example of this. I think not playing Brown was probably the right decision, and if you disagree I'll point you towards the Dallas and Atlanta games near the end of the season. It was an absolute nightmare highlight reel of Trae and Luka just putting him in the high pick and roll. Brown either refused to leave the paint leaving open pick and pop shots for his man, or was absolutely lost trying to defend the driver in space/in drop coverage. If you put Mobley on KD, KD will get a pick (Mobley will probably never be good in fighting over picks a la Giannis, it's just hard to be good with their dimensions) and then all of a sudden you have Moses defending against KD in space (because you can't just let KD walk into open jumpers), maybe the greatest scorer in NBA history.

Added to which, Mobley was the ONLY guy on our team who was providing paint protection against Brooklyn. Assuming Brown is unplayable for the reasons I outlined above, you need to play Love and theoretically Lauri because they're the only other bigs and offer spacing/scoring, but then they're also complete pushovers defending the rim. If he wasn't at the rim, Brooklyn was just about guaranteed a score- when Mobley was there to contest, he blocked 2 shots and had awesome verticality plays on a couple of layups and contested a few more for misses. If you put him on KD, all of a sudden he's spaced out 25 feet from the basket on most possessions and now you're counting on Love or Lauri to lock down the paint.

If JA was back, obviously this changes everything because Mobley could be on KD or roaming off of Bruce Brown and we wouldn't be losing the rim protection. But with him out, it's a clear damned if you do (Brown defending pnr and in space) or damned if you don't (Lauri and Love can't protect the rim, Lauri also can't rebound) and neither option is any good.

Normally I'm not a fan of trapping the ball handler like we did in the 2nd half, but it's Kyrie and KD hitting every single contested shot and in a single game elimination you've got to try something. I thought the plan worked about as well as it could as long as they weren't making Mobley's man set the pick- he did a great job contesting Brown on the 4 on 3s while not giving up an easy lob. There were some tough floaters/layups as well as undoubtedly preventing KD and Kyrie from shooting more than they did. Once they got Mobley in the action, then you really saw the limitations of Love/Lauri down low. If that was JA, he's probably even better than Mobley at staying attached to his man while contesting the shot.

I feel like a lot of these decisions we're having are versions of Lakers fans getting mad at Vogel for playing Avery Bradley over Reaves, THT, etc too much. If you have to have the discussion, oftentimes it's because neither option is particularly good. I've got a whole lot more on my frustrations of how we're building the roster, but that will have to wait till the season is over.

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

@RchfldCavRaised you know how much I appreciate your opinions. And this isn't a post to defend JBB, god knows I've been getting more progressively frustrated with his decision making (or lack thereof) in the last few months of the season. That said...

I think everyone's in a position where JBB is getting blamed for damned if you do, damned if you don't decisions he's forced to make because of the roster's limitations. Playing Moses Brown is a perfect example of this. I think not playing Brown was probably the right decision, and if you disagree I'll point you towards the Dallas and Atlanta games near the end of the season. It was an absolute nightmare highlight reel of Trae and Luka just putting him in the high pick and roll. Brown either refused to leave the paint leaving open pick and pop shots for his man, or was absolutely lost trying to defend the driver in space/in drop coverage. If you put Mobley on KD, KD will get a pick (Mobley will probably never be good in fighting over picks a la Giannis, it's just hard to be good with their dimensions) and then all of a sudden you have Moses defending against KD in space (because you can't just let KD walk into open jumpers), maybe the greatest scorer in NBA history.

Added to which, Mobley was the ONLY guy on our team who was providing paint protection against Brooklyn. Assuming Brown is unplayable for the reasons I outlined above, you need to play Love and theoretically Lauri because they're the only other bigs and offer spacing/scoring, but then they're also complete pushovers defending the rim. If he wasn't at the rim, Brooklyn was just about guaranteed a score- when Mobley was there to contest, he blocked 2 shots and had awesome verticality plays on a couple of layups and contested a few more for misses. If you put him on KD, all of a sudden he's spaced out 25 feet from the basket on most possessions and now you're counting on Love or Lauri to lock down the paint.

If JA was back, obviously this changes everything because Mobley could be on KD or roaming off of Bruce Brown and we wouldn't be losing the rim protection. But with him out, it's a clear damned if you do (Brown defending pnr and in space) or damned if you don't (Lauri and Love can't protect the rim, Lauri also can't rebound) and neither option is any good.

Normally I'm not a fan of trapping the ball handler like we did in the 2nd half, but it's Kyrie and KD hitting every single contested shot and in a single game elimination you've got to try something. I thought the plan worked about as well as it could as long as they weren't making Mobley's man set the pick- he did a great job contesting Brown on the 4 on 3s while not giving up an easy lob. There were some tough floaters/layups as well as undoubtedly preventing KD and Kyrie from shooting more than they did. Once they got Mobley in the action, then you really saw the limitations of Love/Lauri down low. If that was JA, he's probably even better than Mobley at staying attached to his man while contesting the shot.

I feel like a lot of these decisions we're having are versions of Lakers fans getting mad at Vogel for playing Avery Bradley over Reaves, THT, etc too much. If you have to have the discussion, oftentimes it's because neither option is particularly good. I've got a whole lot more on my frustrations of how we're building the roster, but that will have to wait till the season is over.

All good and you don’t have to quantify our mutual respect to disagree. I love mixing it up and welcome other opinions. Makes me a better leader, I think.

Have we seen any Brown and Mobley lineups?

In Dallas and Atlanta, he got lost on an island in high PNR with who else on the floor?

To my recollection, we haven’t seen him in lineups with Mobley yet so we don’t know how well he might recover if he gets pulled away from the basket and into space but we KNOW Mobley as a weak side defender covers a lot of warts when he is not asked to be the only line of defense between the opposition and the basket.

I would say damned if we haven’t tried yet in the case of Brown/Mobley/Markk.

We know Cedi and Rondo will gamble passing lanes aggressively and compromise, Okoro and Stevens will play tough man defense and are smart perimeter team defenders, Markk and Love are toughness deficient but Love has smart positional defensive awareness and Markk can wall/contest with his length if he can stay in front of who he’s guarding and Levert is showing he has a deceptive defensive want to with his plus length for smaller guards…

A lot of tools in our shed to be used, not all being used optimally if at all.

I look forward to debating the roster building vs rotation/schematics with you this summer because I think Koby has done a masterful job on that part tjis year, all things considered

 

[cavsfever]

Honestly we looked much more competitive against the Nets than I expected with Allen out. Compare Charlottes sad, non-competitive showing against Atlanta tonight

 

[MD13]

All good and you don’t have to quantify our mutual respect to disagree. I love mixing it up and welcome other opinions. Makes me a better leader, I think.

Have we seen any Brown and Mobley lineups?

In Dallas and Atlanta, he got lost on an island in high PNR with who else on the floor?

To my recollection, we haven’t seen him in lineups with Mobley yet so we don’t know how well he might recover if he gets pulled away from the basket and into space but we KNOW Mobley as a weak side defender covers a lot of warts when he is not asked to be the only line of defense between the opposition and the basket.

I would say damned if we haven’t tried yet in the case of Brown/Mobley/Markk.

We know Cedi and Rondo will gamble passing lanes aggressively and compromise, Okoro and Stevens will play tough man defense and are smart perimeter team defenders, Markk and Love are toughness deficient but Love has smart positional defensive awareness and Markk can wall/contest with his length if he can stay in front of who he’s guarding and Levert is showing he has a deceptive defensive want to with his plus length for smaller guards…

A lot of tools in our shed to be used, not all being used optimally if at all.

I look forward to debating the roster building vs rotation/schematics with you this summer because I think Koby has done a masterful job on that part tjis year, all things considered

So that is a good point, we've never seen it. My personal feeling is that Brown would have been a liability on the defensive end no matter what. Say what you want about Lauri but he's got pretty good feet for a big and does a decent job in space (aside from falling asleep off the ball sometimes). If Brown is in the game Kyrie and KD were going to attack him relentlessly off of the high PNRs and I don't think he would have given us back enough offensively to offset the liability on the boards. He's also useless outside of 5 feet on offense so our already poor spacing would be completely non-existent. If anything, I think the move would have been to start Love and match him to Drummond since Drummond's scoring isn't scaring anyone and hopefully Love could control the boards with Mobley roaming off of Brown as a helper. Again, I get why they didn't- aside from keeping rotations consistent and all of that, Love is a massive defensive liability in space.

I could write an essay on this, but the short part is that I'm scared Koby nailed all of the important stuff (Garland & Mobley picks, Allen trade were all unquestioned home runs) and is now blowing assets on players that aren't a part of the long term solution of a championship core. In the last year alone we've traded away Nance, a 1st, and a 2nd to pay Markkanen and LeVert about $35 mill a year, and I'm not sure either will be a part of a contending Cavs team. And I say that as being a bit pleasantly surprised with LeVert as a starter. I was well against it for injuries, lack of efficiency, etc but I've been impressed with his defense and there are flashes as a secondary playmaker. My only concern is that the general feeling of "you know, I like what he did out there but he just has to play better and hit more shots" is probably how every previous team of his has felt. Markkanen... still not sure he's even a guy who you can count on in a playoff series; I know he's overstretched in his current role.

And the Okoro pick was fundamentally flawed and as he is right now doesn't mesh with the roster at all. A lot of us were ok-to-liking the pick, but he is 2 inches shorter than we all believed and a non-shooting 2 guard just doesn't work in the league. I assume that the Cavs actually had his measurements before drafting him. It specially doesn't work when you play 2 big lineups- 1-3 have to be dynamic spacers so it doesn't get too mucked up around them. Knowing what I know of Koby's process, it was probably a bet on his makeup- every single Cavs high draft pick under Koby has that no ego, gym rat makeup that has led them to improve more than just about everyone thought they would. He's just got so far to go and I don't like his chances of ever getting to a high level player- I think becoming useful is still well within reach but he's got to show it by next year.

We also haven't even used any assets on big, switchable 3s- this archetype more than any other unlocks the ability to play varied lineups and go small/big depending on what you need. We HAVE to play big because we lack the personnel to put together small lineups that still work.