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Kyrie Irving

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aaronr said:
I'd rate Irving higher than the 9th spot he got in the Bleacher Report rating. He's better than Rondo at this point, and I think better than Rose though that's hard to say because we don't know whether he's recovered from his knee problems. I agree that Lillard is a sieve on defense, like Irving, but he's a better shooter, and I'd rate Wall over Irving because of Wall's defensive abilities. I think the Cavs are lucky to have Irving as their point guard, but as I said in my original post I don't think he's a "top" point guard. Maybe I should have said I didn't think Irving is a "top five" point guard.
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What!?

And imo, Kyrie is a top 4 point guard already.
Westbrook, Curry and Paul are the only PG's ahead of him right now.
 
aaronr said:
I'd rate Irving higher than the 9th spot he got in the Bleacher Report rating. He's better than Rondo at this point, and I think better than Rose though that's hard to say because we don't know whether he's recovered from his knee problems. I agree that Lillard is a sieve on defense, like Irving, but he's a better shooter, and I'd rate Wall over Irving because of Wall's defensive abilities. I think the Cavs are lucky to have Irving as their point guard, but as I said in my original post I don't think he's a "top" point guard. Maybe I should have said I didn't think Irving is a "top five" point guard.
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Again, opinions, not facts. Kyrie last year on jumpers: 38.3%. Lillard last year on jumpers: 37.9%.
 
Can anyone name me another starting point guard besides Curry who is a better shooter than Irving?
And please don't say Calderon. Yes, he's a fantastic 3 point shooter, but not necessarily a better overall shooter than Irving.
Name me some, who at least score 12-13 points a game and aren't only spot up shooters (as Calderon is).
 
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gourimoko said:
Well, I think pretty much most people would agree that from that list, Irving is a better player than:

Lillard, (no question)
Wall, (Wall better defense, better facilitator; everything else goes Irving's way and it's not close)
Parker, (Parker has aged)
Rose, (It's 2014, wake up and smell the Roses)
Rondo (read the above)

Westbrook is better than Irving because he's a better defender; but if I'm starting a franchise, I'd take Irving due to youth, malleability, and his attitude towards the game (doesn't need to be the man).

Chris Paul is a no-brainer. But eventually, Father Time will even things out.

Steph Curry excelled on a playoff team, while Irving languished on one of the most mismanaged franchises in the NBA.

I have Irving 4th among PGs in the NBA as of last season. Having watched FIBA; I think he'll come in and probably rank 2nd next season, and first thereafter.
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:chuckle:
 
BimboColesHair said:
Again, opinions, not facts. Kyrie last year on jumpers: 38.3%. Lillard last year on jumpers: 37.9%.
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Let's not be so selective with our facts on the Lillard-Irving shooting comparison. I'm not a great stats man, but I note that Lillard's AFG last year was 51% compared to Irving's 48%. I also note that Lillard had more assists per game and a better assist/turnover ratio. My sense, switching over to the defensive end, is that Lillard is a better defender, though still not very good. Maybe some of our statistical mavens can shed some light on their comparative defensive (dis)abilities.
 
aaronr said:
Let's not be so selective with our facts on the Lillard-Irving shooting comparison. I'm not a great stats man, but I note that Lillard's AFG last year was 51% compared to Irving's 48%. I also note that Lillard had more assists per game and a better assist/turnover ratio. My sense, switching over to the defensive end, is that Lillard is a better defender, though still not very good. Maybe some of our statistical mavens can shed some light on their comparative defensive (dis)abilities.
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Are we only going to compare one season? Are we going to ignore Mike Brown's abortion of an offense and its effect on Kyrie's performance this past season? Are we going to ignore the difference in personnel between the two teams? Put Kyrie on last seasons Portland team and Lillard on last seasons Cavs and this discussion wouldn't be happening. Irving was being double teamed on almost every possession. I don't think that Portland PG can claim anything of the sort. Stats and performance have to be analyzed with the proper perspective. Other factors have to be taken into account. In my book, Kyrie is clearly the better player, and this upcoming season will end this discussion.
 
Cashius X said:
I was so tempted to stop reading when I saw them rank Russell ahead of CP3...that's terrible. But nonetheless, Dame and Rondo aren't better than Kyrie Irving right now. Also I see Kyrie surpassing John Wall this season easily. Furthermore, I don't think it's fair to put Derrick Rose so high at all. From what we've seen in USA Basketball this summer, Rose isn't better than Kyrie.

I guess what I'm trying to say is Kyrie @9 is BS. That list was pretty bad. They're predicting a 20-5-4 line for Kyrie which is extremely conservative so I'm thinking once the season starts and he blows that projection out of the water they'll move his ranking up a couple notches. Still a pretty terrible list. How the fuck are you going to rank Dame and Wall better than Kyrie when Kyrie is the starting USA PG and those 2 didn't even make the cut?

Someone needs to tell the writer to do his homework next time...
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Because international play is different?
 
aaronr said:
Let's not be so selective with our facts on the Lillard-Irving shooting comparison. I'm not a great stats man, but I note that Lillard's AFG last year was 51% compared to Irving's 48%. I also note that Lillard had more assists per game and a better assist/turnover ratio. My sense, switching over to the defensive end, is that Lillard is a better defender, though still not very good. Maybe some of our statistical mavens can shed some light on their comparative defensive (dis)abilities.
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You're really using adjusted FG% to see who the better jump shooter is? I literally posted their %'s from last year on jump shots, which are very easy to find. The bolded part, I'm not sure what stats you are looking at. With better talent around him, Lillard averaged 5.6 assists per game last year. Kyrie averaged 6.1. 6.1 > 5.6 if my math teachers didn't fail me.
 
Rich said:
Because international play is different?
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Since you want to cherry pick one random ass line from my post...

Not really. The best players still made the team. Kyrie outplayed Wall and Dame in practices which led to him starting in the intrasquad scrimmage and then he outplayed those two in the exhibitions which led to him making the team over them.

If Dame and John were "better" than Kyrie they wouldn't be on the outside looking in, in terms of USA Basketball.
 
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