Minor League Week 6 Games (6/8 - 6/13/21)

[MadThinker88]

More Weds Gm updates:

AAA Columbus leads 6-0 in the middle of the 5th..

AA Akron is in a pier 9 brawl. Currently 11-10 RDucks but Curve have bases loaded in the bottom of the 6th.
RDucks have turned to Nick Mickolajchak for some mid game pitching help...

High A Lake County is tied 2-2 in the bottom of the 6th..

Low A Lynchburg has their game suspended due to rain, 0-0 going into the 3rd..

Edit #1:
Make it RDucks trail 13-11 going into the 7th...

Edit #2:
Kirk McCarty gives up a grand salami in the 5th. Iowa Cubs still batting. Clippers currently lead 6-4.
-----------------------------------------

Edit #3:
RDucks tie it up 13-13 going into bottom of the 7th..

Captains retake lead 3-2. Game is now entering the 8th
Interestingly Q Holmes is 4 for 4 and now hitting .545 on the season..

 

[Criznit]

Big nights at the plate for several players, especially the boys for Akron.

The catcher for Altoona, Arden Pabst (sweet name) getting killed by the base stealers tonight, 8SB 0CS for the Runner Ducks tonight!!!

edit. Not gonna fix that happy accident typo....

 

[MadThinker88]

Final Weds Game Updates:

High A Lake County wins 3-2

AA Akron loses 14-13

AAA Columbus is leading 8-4 going into the bottom of the 8th
--------------------------------

Edit #1:
AAA Columbus wins 8-4

CLE affiliates go 2-1 on the day with a run diff of +4
Affiliates are now 4-3 with a run diff of +10 on the week

The suspended Lynchburg game is scheduled to be resumed on 6/10. If I understand the rules correctly the resumed game is still a 9 inning affair when they restart it. If after that game they try to play the normally scheduled game, that game would be a 7 inning affair.

 

[sportscoach]

Clement has a 4 game hitting streak going, so I hope that means he is getting out of the funk he was in after being injured...

 

[MadThinker88]

Info from various twitter sources (Indians Prospective/ Justin Lada/ TribeInsider/ Team Accounts/ etc):

Starters for Thursday games:
Today's Minor league probables for Cleveland..
Columbus: RHP Kevin Herget
Akron: RHP Shane McCarthy
Lake County: LHP Logan T. Allen
Lynchburg: TBD (have to finish game from yesterday):
Lynchburg Gm2: RHP Sergio Morillo
------------------------------------------------------
AAA Columbus Lineup:

AA Akron Lineup:

MT88 Note: Once again, Tyler Freeman is sitting when Bo Naylor is out of the lineup. I am really getting annoyed by how often that is happening..

High A Lake County Lineup:

MT88 Note: Good to see Valera back in the lineup today after being out of the lineup on Weds.. Really like the 1 thru 7 in the lineup tonight..

Low A Lynchburg Lineup (if posted)

MT88 opinion: I am not happy to see Sergio Morillo getting another start for Lynchburg. Across 5 starts already he has only 9.2 IP and a WHIP of 2.483 (3.1 if the 6 batters he hit by pitch get counted). He needs to be replaced in the rotation & get some work in Arizona/ Extended Spring Training.

------------------------------
Other notes:


Roster Movement:
#Indians minor league transactions LHP Anthony Gose & RHP DJ Johnson activated on Columbus Clippers roster returning from Olympic qualifier tournament

#Indians minor league transaction LHP Zach Draper assigned to Akron from Columbus


Note: This post will be updated throughout the day as info is released

 

[DickyLeftridge]

Well - don't know what to tell ya. The minors are fluid.

He is also playing 3rd to "play" it.. One of Freeman's biggest knocks is his arm, and playing 3rd should allow him to work on his biggest "weakness" if you want to look at it that way.

Quite simply, if you can play quality SS you can play anywhere. Chisenhall came into the system as a SS and ended up moving to 3B almost immediately, but ultimately ended up in the OF. I wouldn't worry to much about the juggling.

I do worry about the juggling and it is exactly the point that I made earlier in this thread. This is how we treat our elite prospects which, as marty pointed out, is basically as if they are all AAAA fodder.

Look at the big league team. These guys breaking into the big leagues trying to establish themselves don't know if they're going to be playing SS, 2B, 1B, or hell even whether they're going to be playing IF or OF period on a night-to-night basis. Rosario, Naylor, Chang, on back to Erik Gonzalez, Yandy who we briefly tried to turn into an OF for some reason, and seemingly everyone since Lindor that came up was treated as Util. That certainly strains their focus. We've clearly seen the defense suffer--you only need to remember back to Chang's miscues at 1B against the White Sox, a position he was being forced into essentially for the first time and hardly had the instincts down for yet. Do you really think those miscues stay only on the defensive side of the ball and don't inevitably carry over once they pick up a bat? It's half the game. If you're not comfortable with what you're doing during half the game, why all of a sudden are you going to feel comfortable 4 times a night when you enter the box? Some can, sure. Jose being one. But that's a lot to ask of a young kid, and many can't.

At the AA level I'm sure Freeman can flow between 3B, SS, 2B, RF, hotdog vendor, etc. with little spillover to how it affects him offensively. He can get by on natural talent even when his attention is diverted defensively. But that comes to an end at the big league level. Ask yourself why guys who hit perfectly fine for their entire MILB career like Yandy, Chang, etc. and then get to the majors and now suddenly are struggling to hit above a buck 90.

It's a disservice to the prospects. It's not their fault our FO is strapped in FA an inept identifying bats in the draft. It's now trickling down into the minors, as the Freeman, Rocchio, Bracho, etc. experiments are showing,. A few will probably be fine. But we'll burn through more than we would otherwise simply because we're expecting these guys to figure out to play a position when we can't even figure out where to play them. "Everywhere" is not a position.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I do worry about the juggling and it is exactly the point that I made earlier in this thread. This is how we treat our elite prospects which, as marty pointed out, is basically as if they are all AAAA fodder.

Look at the big league team. These guys breaking into the big leagues trying to establish themselves don't know if they're going to be playing SS, 2B, 1B, or hell even whether they're going to be playing IF or OF period on a night-to-night basis. Rosario, Naylor, Chang, on back to Erik Gonzalez, Yandy who we briefly tried to turn into an OF for some reason, and seemingly everyone since Lindor that came up was treated as Util. That certainly strains their focus. We've clearly seen the defense suffer--you only need to remember back to Chang's miscues at 1B against the White Sox, a position he was being forced into essentially for the first time and hardly had the instincts down for yet. Do you really think those miscues stay only on the defensive side of the ball and don't inevitably carry over once they pick up a bat? It's half the game. If you're not comfortable with what you're doing during half the game, why all of a sudden are you going to feel comfortable 4 times a night when you enter the box? Some can, sure. Jose being one. But that's a lot to ask of a young kid, and many can't.

At the AA level I'm sure Freeman can flow between 3B, SS, 2B, RF, hotdog vendor, etc. with little spillover to how it affects him offensively. He can get by on natural talent even when his attention is diverted defensively. But that comes to an end at the big league level. Ask yourself why guys who hit perfectly fine for their entire MILB career like Yandy, Chang, etc. and then get to the majors and now suddenly are struggling to hit above a buck 90.

It's a disservice to the prospects. It's not their fault our FO is strapped in FA an inept identifying bats in the draft. It's now trickling down into the minors, as the Freeman, Rocchio, Bracho, etc. experiments are showing,. A few will probably be fine. But we'll burn through more than we would otherwise simply because we're expecting these guys to figure out to play a position when we can't even figure out where to play them. "Everywhere" is not a position.

You do realize that MLB is much harder than the minor leagues... right? You're taking something that is normal (mediocre prospects not hitting well at the next level) and attributing it to something that at best has loose correlation.

Chang wasn't poor defensively at first because he played multiple positions--he was playing first at all because he played multiple positions. The alternative isn't Chang being a better first-baseman. The alternative is Chang being someone who doesn't play first base at all.

 

[Tondo]

Giants usually like to claim post hype players, but the Mariners might be the best fit. Wouldn't it be funny to see him this weekend in a Seattle uniform? We could finally root against him for real, lol

Well, well...

 

[DickyLeftridge]

You do realize that MLB is much harder than the minor leagues... right? You're taking something that is normal (mediocre prospects not hitting well at the next level) and attributing it to something that at best has loose correlation.

Chang wasn't poor defensively at first because he played multiple positions--he was playing first at all because he played multiple positions. The alternative isn't Chang being a better first-baseman. The alternative is Chang being someone who doesn't play first base at all.

I'm wondering if you realize that the MLB is much harder than the minor leagues. Why are you co-signing us making the MLB more difficult for these prospects? Is your position that these kids were never really prospects to begin with and their downfall in the majors was inevitable? Strange take, if so.

Chang was poor at first because he had never played 1B in the first place. He was not "playing 1B at all because he played multiple positions." That's incorrect and the entire issue. He was playing 1B because the organization could neither afford nor manage to draft/sign a real one. That's why he was at 1B. He was playing it by default.

Your alternatives are also incorrect. The alternative is playing Chang where he has historically played or dealing him for value to another team who will. It's not playing him at 1B where he fails defensively, his bat fizzles, and then he has no value left to anyone. But that's the approach you're advocating.

We're all Cleveland fans here, otherwise we wouldn't be spending time debating the merits of minor league prospects. But you guys need to get a grasp of reality and put down the koolaid for a minute if you can't analyze critically that our approach as it relates to our key hitting prospects, in technical terms, sucks.

What evidence since generational talents like Lindor and Ramirez do you have to the contrary? So you think my evidence is correlative and not causally related. Super. K, well at least it's some evidence. What evidence do you have the last 10 years that this is going to work with anyone who is not an MVP caliber player?

I'll hang up and listen off air.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I'm wondering if you realize that the MLB is much harder than the minor leagues. Why are you co-signing us making the MLB more difficult for these prospects? Is your position that these kids were never really prospects to begin with and their downfall in the majors was inevitable? Strange take, if so.

Chang was poor at first because he had never played 1B in the first place. He was not "playing 1B at all because he played multiple positions." That's incorrect and the entire issue. He was playing 1B because the organization could neither afford nor manage to draft/sign a real one. That's why he was at 1B. He was playing it by default.

Your alternatives are also incorrect. The alternative is playing Chang where he has historically played or dealing him for value to another team who will. It's not playing him at 1B where he fails defensively, his bat fizzles, and then he has no value left to anyone. But that's the approach you're advocating.

We're all Cleveland fans here, otherwise we wouldn't be spending time debating the merits of minor league prospects. But you guys need to get a grasp of reality and put down the koolaid for a minute if you can't analyze critically that our approach as it relates to our key hitting prospects, in technical terms, sucks.

What evidence since generational talents like Lindor and Ramirez do you have to the contrary? So you think my evidence is correlative and not causally related. Super. K, well at least it's some evidence. What evidence do you have the last 10 years that this is going to work with anyone who is not an MVP caliber player?

I'll hang up and listen off air.

Look, you made an argument. Your argument is that players should not play multiple positions in the minor leagues.

You used "Yu Chang made errors at first base" to validate your argument.

The problem is, first base was never Chang's primary position. If you wanted to show that positional flexibility results in a worse major leaguer, you'd have to use results from his primary position.

For what it's worth, I think it's obvious that all your reps at one position mean you'll be the best at that one position--but we've seen that things don't always work out perfectly, and I think the diverse defensive approach has merit, especially when looking at how our bats can fit into the major leagues moving forwards. Positional flexibility means we have a higher likelihood of putting our best bats on the field. That's a good thing.

The second argument you make, which is more coherent than the first, is about positional flexibility leading to decreased offense. If you want to claim that positional flexibility results in worse offensive output, then prove that. It's not up to everyone else to prove that it doesn't happen. You're the one deviating from the null hypothesis. The list of examples you'd have to overcome to prove this point is staggering. Jose is an obvious one, playing LF and then 3B at an MVP-level after being brought up as a MIF. But, go back through history. Pujols, Encarnacion, Thome, Ripken, ARod, Chipper Jones... Babe-fricking-Ruth... the history of baseball is littered with examples of terrific players who proved you can still hit while playing different positions.

The rest of this post is... well, something that I'm not going to bother engaging with. I recommend you leave the personal attacking bullshit behind next time.

 

[sportscoach]

I'm wondering if you realize that the MLB is much harder than the minor leagues. Why are you co-signing us making the MLB more difficult for these prospects? Is your position that these kids were never really prospects to begin with and their downfall in the majors was inevitable? Strange take, if so.

Chang was poor at first because he had never played 1B in the first place. He was not "playing 1B at all because he played multiple positions." That's incorrect and the entire issue. He was playing 1B because the organization could neither afford nor manage to draft/sign a real one. That's why he was at 1B. He was playing it by default.

Your alternatives are also incorrect. The alternative is playing Chang where he has historically played or dealing him for value to another team who will. It's not playing him at 1B where he fails defensively, his bat fizzles, and then he has no value left to anyone. But that's the approach you're advocating.

We're all Cleveland fans here, otherwise we wouldn't be spending time debating the merits of minor league prospects. But you guys need to get a grasp of reality and put down the koolaid for a minute if you can't analyze critically that our approach as it relates to our key hitting prospects, in technical terms, sucks.

What evidence since generational talents like Lindor and Ramirez do you have to the contrary? So you think my evidence is correlative and not causally related. Super. K, well at least it's some evidence. What evidence do you have the last 10 years that this is going to work with anyone who is not an MVP caliber player?

I'll hang up and listen off air.

So I guess Luplow should still be at 3B, Mercado at SS, JRam at 2B, Naylor is full time 1B, Wolters who was an Indians farm hand, should still be at SS even though C got him in the pros... Wendle wouldn't have made the pros for the Rays if he stayed at one position... Chisenhall should have been the worst 3B in the league defensively...Jones should still be at SS...

If you want the truth, Lindor is the exception not the norm when it comes to player development... Most players like college students, don't always stay with the major/position they originally went for/played at. Why is something that every single team does so bad? I guess every single development team has how to develop players and they need to change it....Good bats get moved to positions where they aren't blocked to move up while the defensive guys always stay at the position that's the most important on the field. Lindor had the bat and defense so he didn't need to move off of SS, otherwise if something was lacking, he may have been moved off of SS, kind of simple logic really...

 

[Criznit]

Um despite learning in real time, Yu Chang is a decent 1st baseman.

He made a cpl boneheaded plays - pegging Grandal in the back and that rundown with Miller the other day, but all and all he ain't too bad and probably qualifies as better than avg.

This moving around stuff is a non-factor.. Usually if you're not moving around (in the minors) it is because you suck on D, excluding catchers..

#1 prospect Wander Franco has played 23 games at SS 3at 2nd and 3 at 3rd... He plays "other" positions roughly 20% of the time, in the minors this year.

 

[kriegs]

I'm wondering if you realize that the MLB is much harder than the minor leagues. Why are you co-signing us making the MLB more difficult for these prospects? Is your position that these kids were never really prospects to begin with and their downfall in the majors was inevitable? Strange take, if so.

Chang was poor at first because he had never played 1B in the first place. He was not "playing 1B at all because he played multiple positions." That's incorrect and the entire issue. He was playing 1B because the organization could neither afford nor manage to draft/sign a real one. That's why he was at 1B. He was playing it by default.

Your alternatives are also incorrect. The alternative is playing Chang where he has historically played or dealing him for value to another team who will. It's not playing him at 1B where he fails defensively, his bat fizzles, and then he has no value left to anyone. But that's the approach you're advocating.

We're all Cleveland fans here, otherwise we wouldn't be spending time debating the merits of minor league prospects. But you guys need to get a grasp of reality and put down the koolaid for a minute if you can't analyze critically that our approach as it relates to our key hitting prospects, in technical terms, sucks.

What evidence since generational talents like Lindor and Ramirez do you have to the contrary? So you think my evidence is correlative and not causally related. Super. K, well at least it's some evidence. What evidence do you have the last 10 years that this is going to work with anyone who is not an MVP caliber player?

I'll hang up and listen off air.

This whole argument is one of the most creative uses of the "Dolanz Are Cheap" complaint I've ever seen. Deserves an award if you ask me.

 

[DickyLeftridge]

Look, you made an argument. Your argument is that players should not play multiple positions in the minor leagues.

You used "Yu Chang made errors at first base" to validate your argument.

The problem is, first base was never Chang's primary position. If you wanted to show that positional flexibility results in a worse major leaguer, you'd have to use results from his primary position.

For what it's worth, I think it's obvious that all your reps at one position mean you'll be the best at that one position--but we've seen that things don't always work out perfectly, and I think the diverse defensive approach has merit, especially when looking at how our bats can fit into the major leagues moving forwards. Positional flexibility means we have a higher likelihood of putting our best bats on the field. That's a good thing.

The second argument you make, which is more coherent than the first, is about positional flexibility leading to decreased offense. If you want to claim that positional flexibility results in worse offensive output, then prove that. It's not up to everyone else to prove that it doesn't happen. You're the one deviating from the null hypothesis. The list of examples you'd have to overcome to prove this point is staggering. Jose is an obvious one, playing LF and then 3B at an MVP-level after being brought up as a MIF. But, go back through history. Pujols, Encarnacion, Thome, Ripken, ARod, Chipper Jones... Babe-fricking-Ruth... the history of baseball is littered with examples of terrific players who proved you can still hit while playing different positions.

The rest of this post is... well, something that I'm not going to bother engaging with. I recommend you leave the personal attacking bullshit behind next time.

My argument was never that players should not play multiple positions in the minor leagues. My argument is that our players in our minor leagues are playing multiple positions because our organization has decided to implement top-down an idea that it has tried, to failure, at the MLB level.

You also misstate my second argument, likely deliberately. I stated very early on that I have no issue with MiLB SS being moved to 3B or 2B here and there. Those are very natural transitions that happen with frequency. The near-hysterical references to the players you cite have no bearing on this argument, and you know that. I'm taking issue with what is a very clear pattern at this point of turning every single one of our best hitting prospects into Utility players. Meaning they aren't simply moved off one position, one time. They're bounced around the entire IF (and then OF) and forced to hit along the way.

If you'd like to respond this time by addressing the argument that I am in fact making, I'll help you. Here is my argument: we are stunting the growth of our best hitting prospects by asking them to learn several (read, not just 1 other) positions. Our organization's inability to develop a competent hitting prospect in 10 years supports that's argument, as it at least conveniently coincides with the timing that our approach moved to turning all our best prospects into Michael Martinez before we let them get every day ABs in the majors.

So that you know, we all know that you mischaracterized my position because you had no good response to it. So that you know, it's neither compelling nor inconspicuous. So that you also know, I'll gladly give your recommendation the consideration it deserves.

Back on track, my belief is that that this move is not being made because we suddenly have an abundance of pure Utility guys in the organization. The move is being made because we have a dearth of good hitters on the big league club who fit together in any cohesive way. And our current MO of drafting and signing Intl SS virtually exclusively does not seem likely to remedy that problem any time soon.

 

[kriegs]

My argument was never that players should not play multiple positions in the minor leagues. My argument is that our players in our minor leagues are playing multiple positions because our organization has decided to implement top-down an idea that it has tried, to failure, at the MLB level.

You also misstate my second argument, likely deliberately. I stated very early on that I have no issue with MiLB SS being moved to 3B or 2B here and there. Those are very natural transitions that happen with frequency. The near-hysterical references to the players you cite have no bearing on this argument, and you know that. I'm taking issue with what is a very clear pattern at this point of turning every single one of our best hitting prospects into Utility players. Meaning they aren't simply moved off one position, one time. They're bounced around the entire IF (and then OF) and forced to hit along the way.

If you'd like to respond this time by addressing the argument that I am in fact making, I'll help you. Here is my argument: we are stunting the growth of our best hitting prospects by asking them to learn several (read, not just 1 other) positions. Our organization's inability to develop a competent hitting prospect in 10 years supports that's argument, as it at least conveniently coincides with the timing that our approach moved to turning all our best prospects into Michael Martinez before we let them get every day ABs in the majors.

So that you know, we all know that you mischaracterized my position because you had no good response to it. So that you know, it's neither compelling nor inconspicuous. So that you also know, I'll gladly give your recommendation the consideration it deserves.

Back on track, my belief is that that this move is not being made because we suddenly have an abundance of pure Utility guys in the organization. The move is being made because we have a dearth of good hitters on the big league club who fit together in any cohesive way. And our current MO of drafting and signing Intl SS virtually exclusively does not seem likely to remedy that problem any time soon.

Dude, every team cross-trains minor league prospects and wants positional flexibility. Also, a large number of top prospects enter the minor leagues as shortstops.

You're acting like the Indians have some bold and unique strategy that is sabotaging our whole operation. Not sure where the outrage is coming from.