(No Longer) Joe Woods’ Defense

[Bob_The_Cat]

I know a lot it being put on the defense, but the defense forced two 3 And Outs (one was technically 4 plays because of an offensive penalty) and an INT in Falcons territory to start the 2nd half. And all the Browns could muster was 3 points. And this was after moving the ball at will in the 1st half.

You'd hope that this team with Watson would take advantage of the opportunity to grab control of the game.

This is the point that’s been made over-and-over again, though. Yes, the offense made some mistakes and certainly could’ve put up more points. However, we all knew prior to the season that the formula for the Browns to win with Brissett was the following:

1. Run the ball and control the clock
2. Don’t turn the ball over
3. Continue to play at a top 5-10 level on defense

With Brissett at QB, if any of the above don’t happen then it’s difficult to be a good team. Injuries didn’t help this past game, but the D hasn’t been anywhere close to top 5-10 this year. We also might’ve faced the 4 worst offensive teams on our entire schedule to start the season.

There’s still time to get better, but we knew coming into the season DL depth was an issue as well even with everyone healthy. Offensive play calling could’ve been better in the red zone, but I’m still not sure how you expect much more out of a Brissett led offense than what we’ve got up to this point.

 

[Urban]

I’m still not sure how you expect much more out of a Brissett led offense than what we’ve got up to this point.

Yeah can't agree with this after yesterday's offensive performance

 

[Real Deal]

There's expectations when you're playing a bottom portion of the league in your early schedule.

Of course we shouldn't beat MIA, BUF, or TB.

I raise a lot of hell on Joe Woods, and I absolutely think he should be gone. Is he worth an extension of any sort, fuck no, so why keep employing that crap.

But we're not paying Myles to be an inept leader, or Clowney chilling on the sideline, losing your veteran LB on top of that. I'll pin this loss on Myles too.

Browns are taking turns losing in pointing the finger fashion. One game the Offense is next to greatness and our defense is the worst the league has seen in 21 years.

I get sucked right back in with 'well, win against the Chargers and all is forgiven'

 

[Bob_The_Cat]

Yeah can't agree with this after yesterday's offensive performance

Really? What do you expect from Brissett. The truth is the Njoku fumble fucked both the offense and defense more than any other play in the game. If he just doesn’t fumble (one of the primary keys of winning with Brissett) we probably win that game. Brissett wasn’t great, but played about the way he has his whole career.

 

[Urban]

Really? What do you expect from Brissett. The truth is the Njoku fumble fucked both the offense and defense more than any other play in the game. If he just doesn’t fumble (one of the primary keys of winning with Brissett) we probably win that game. Brissett wasn’t great, but played about the way he has his whole career.

You said the Brissett led offense. I'm not putting the brunt of the loss on Brissett. The offense (beyond Chubb) deserves blame for this loss and it seems like posters in here are putting all of it on the defense.

Where the offense came up short yesterday:
-Having the ball inside the 5 yard line three times in the first half and only walking away with 10 points
-Turning the ball over at our own 31 yard line
-Coming away with only 3 points after the defense forced two quick punts and got you a turnover in the opponent's end of the field
-Getting into Atlanta territory on the final two drives only to punt and have your QB throw a horrific INT

 

[Randolphkeys]

Didn't watch this game, it was my wife's birthday.

That said, the discourse today has been a little more detailed than yesterday. Some people will blame every loss on the defensive coordinator because they decided they hate Joe Woods. Maybe a more aggressive blitz scheme would have created more turnovers, but you also can't prove it would have held the Falcons below 23 points - the league average.

Once I heard Clowney and Myles were out, I chalked this one up as a loss. Woods runs a scheme predicated on excellent line play, everyone in the back seven switching up coverages. I would have bet on the defense imploding even worse without decent defensive line talent healthy.

 

[Bob_The_Cat]

Once I heard Clowney and Myles were out, I chalked this one up as a loss. Woods runs a scheme predicated on excellent line play, everyone in the back seven switching up coverages. I would have bet on the defense imploding even worse without decent defensive line talent healthy.

To me, bolded represents a philosophical problem. Even with Clowney and Garrett, our DL s as a whole lacks talent. A DC who’s defense relies on excellent line play probably isn’t going to work because Berry doesn’t value the DT position at all, and it’s evident based on how we’ve addressed the position.

We’ve heavily invested in the secondary via trade, draft, and FA more than any other position group on the team, and the results have been very mixed. Either Berry needs to commit to a change in how he views the line, or the Browns need to bring in a DC who is better at using the LBs and DBs to generate pressure.

 

[Urban]

I disagree that Andrew Berry "doesn't value the DT position at all"

2020
-Inherited Sheldon Richardon and Larry Ogunjobi
-Drafted Jordan Elliott 3rd Round #88 overall (6th DT off board, Browns 3rd pick of the draft)

2021
-Let Ogunjobi walk after down season and (smartly) cut Sheldon Richardson to save $11 million
-Drafted Tommy Togai 4th Round #132 overall (9th DT off board, Browns 5th pick of the draft)
-Made Malik Jackson and Malik McDowell the starters.

2022
-Malik Jackson gone because he's washed. McDowell gone because he's an idiot.
-Perrion Winfrey. 4th round #108 overall. (5th DT off board, Browns 4th pick of the draft)
-Signs Taven Bryan to start alongside Jordan Elliott

 

[red.]

 

[Real Deal]

Woods has all week to prepare for an even more banged up team than the Browns making the cross country trip and 1pm start time.(y'kno where every game gives the home team the advantage) Let's see what coach Woods draws up.

 

[Randolphkeys]

To me, bolded represents a philosophical problem. Even with Clowney and Garrett, our DL s as a whole lacks talent. A DC who’s defense relies on excellent line play probably isn’t going to work because Berry doesn’t value the DT position at all, and it’s evident based on how we’ve addressed the position.

I agree that the talent on the defensive line is a problem, especially with this scheme. I will also say the team is three ends down because Winovich is out. I do not agree that the front office believes DT doesn't matter... they have not spent money in free agency because like receiver, they invested a lot of day two picks recently. Young guys have to step up.

The team wants to develop Elliott, Togiai, Wright and Winfrey, but the group is extremely green behind a few vets, and the vets weren't available.

We’ve heavily invested in the secondary via trade, draft, and FA more than any other position group on the team, and the results have been very mixed. Either Berry needs to commit to a change in how he views the line, or the Browns need to bring in a DC who is better at using the LBs and DBs to generate pressure.

The scheme is the control, injuries are the variable.

It really sucks that the offense is behind the eight ball with the Watson decision, and that continues to trickle down every other lost veteran on either side of the ball. We as fans are being desensitized to it. They weren't less talented than the Falcons on Sunday.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I agree that the talent on the defensive line is a problem, especially with this scheme. I will also say the team is three ends down because Winovich is out. I do not agree that the front office believes DT doesn't matter... they have not spent money in free agency because like receiver, they invested a lot of day two picks recently. Young guys have to step up.

The team wants to develop Elliott, Togiai, Wright and Winfrey, but the group is extremely green behind a few vets, and the vets weren't available.




The scheme is the control, injuries are the variable.

It really sucks that the offense is behind the eight ball with the Watson decision, and that continues to trickle down every other lost veteran on either side of the ball. We as fans are being desensitized to it. They weren't less talented than the Falcons on Sunday.

I think in most aspects, you'd say that a coach who sticks to a certain scheme, even when he doesn't have the talent to execute it, is a bad coach.

I'm positive all of us have said that at different times over the years on RCF.

I understand how the complexities of an NFL defense coupled with tight schedules week-to-week can tilt those scales, but I believe the core concept is still valid.

The fact that Woods stuck to his scheme, even when armchair analysts knew it was going to be problematic, should be treated as an indictment--not as an excuse.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I think in most aspects, you'd say that a coach who sticks to a certain scheme, even when he doesn't have the talent to execute it, is a bad coach.

I will ask this question:

Did you expect a completely different scheme once Myles had the car accident, or the same scheme the franchise has installed for three years with a few variances?

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I will ask this question:

Did you expect a completely different scheme once Myles had the car accident, or the same scheme the franchise has installed for three years with a few variances?

I expect there to be contingencies and variations baked into the scheme that we've been installing for three years.

Whether it's a player getting injured off-the-field like Myles, a player getting injured on-the-field on Sunday, or something weird going on and what you're trying just isn't working, having a singular path with no contingencies is absolutely unfathomable to me. I don't think that flies in any professional setting, let alone in something as highly specialized as the NFL.

It's like a school that doesn't have a VCR on a TV cart ready for that day when Mrs. Wable can't show up and the 22-year-old sub has to corral 35 rowdy 7 year-olds. Absolutely unacceptable.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I expect there to be contingencies and variations baked into the scheme that we've been installing for three years.

Whether it's a player getting injured off-the-field like Myles, a player getting injured on-the-field on Sunday, or something weird going on and what you're trying just isn't working, having a singular path with no contingencies is absolutely unfathomable to me. I don't think that flies in any professional setting, let alone in something as highly specialized as the NFL.

It's like a school that doesn't have a VCR on a TV cart ready for that day when Mrs. Wable can't show up and the 22-year-old sub has to corral 35 rowdy 7 year-olds. Absolutely unacceptable.

I don't know this week. Seemed like the defense shut down the passing game all game. Pitts and London only totalled 80 yards, Mariota completed two second half passes.

On a defense missing three starting defensive linemen and the signal calling middle linebacker, they couldn't stop the run and scored below league average on offense.

Feels like a talent deficit at the wrong few positions defensively combined with a bad offensive day... and I couldn't be happier I didn't watch.