Ochai Agbaji: 70 days a Cavalier

[inliner311]

I thought he was my boy! Excitement about Williams really grew on this forum in the last few weeks before the draft. Some crackerjack researcher can figure out which one of us instigated the hype

I think it might have been me to instigated the Jalen Williams hype. Once I saw the box and one video of him, I was all on board with him. I might have even held back how much I liked him because I didn't want to look too crazy.

I looked into him because I heard he might be a high 2nd round pick and was looking at possibilities at #39.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I don't disagree with you. But teams have to Sell tickets to those idiots. It's alot harder to sell a low scoring 3-D wing for a couple years while having a shitty roster then it is to sell a high scoring guard.

Not trying to be an asshat, but that's not how it went down. The Cavs presold season tickets hard in 2017/2018 knowing LBJ was on his way out.

They were near the top of tickets sold because of presale, not because of Sextonmania:

2018-2019 NBA Attendance - National Basketball Association - ESPN

Find out the 2018-2019 attendance numbers for every NBA team.

www.espn.com

 

[NMCav]

Not trying to be an asshat, but that's not how it went down. The Cavs presold season tickets hard in 2017/2018 knowing LBJ was on his way out.

They were near the top of tickets sold because of presale, not because of Sextonmania:

2018-2019 NBA Attendance - National Basketball Association - ESPN

Find out the 2018-2019 attendance numbers for every NBA team.

www.espn.com

What does that have to do with anything? They only fell to 17th the following season. How much further would they have slipped if their prized piece for the rebuild was a 3-D wing coming off a 8 Point rookie season? People don't want to admit it. But when a team is starting a rebuild getting a player who puts up numbers will entice the fans more then a 3-D wing no matter how good that player is or can be.

 

[Lee]

Agbaji is more like JRs final form of a 3 and d wing. Jr prob had better handles too,but he wasn't that effective using them.

Totally agree JR had a very high talent level he never reached. Underrated defender. He really did a lot to neutralize Klay

JR for sure had better handles. JR had a ton of talent, its a bad comparison. Maybe a Bryon Russell is a decent comparison how I view Agbaji.

 

[Randolphkeys]

What does that have to do with anything? They only fell to 17th the following season. How much further would they have slipped if their prized piece for the rebuild was a 3-D wing coming off a 8 Point rookie season? People don't want to admit it. But when a team is starting a rebuild getting a player who puts up numbers will entice the fans more then a 3-D wing no matter how good that player is or can be.

You have built your argument for the Sexton pick around ticket sales. You also do not have concrete data on how Sexton in a vacuum would positively or negatively change sales. All I did is point out what actually happened.

I also don't think you are arguing that Sexton is better than Bridges, correct? My stance has always been that Sexton is not a better player than Bridges, but Sexton wasn't some huge miss either.

The speculation on tickets is all you here, bro.

 

[inliner311]

I think it's hard to find a comparison to Agbaji because until recently younger players didn't model their games to be such 3pt threats especially when they are as athletic as Agbaji. The good 3pt shooters were the less athletic players on teams. We are starting to see players extend their range in college beyond the college 3pt line which a couple years ago you would have never seen.

I think someone here said that Agbaji grew early so he played as a big in high school and had to transition to a guard in college. Which makes sense since he doesn't really have guard skills.

 

[Heat Check]

What does that have to do with anything? They only fell to 17th the following season. How much further would they have slipped if their prized piece for the rebuild was a 3-D wing coming off a 8 Point rookie season? People don't want to admit it. But when a team is starting a rebuild getting a player who puts up numbers will entice the fans more then a 3-D wing no matter how good that player is or can be.

Exactly. The Cavs of that period were a perfect fit for my Placeholder Star Theory. I've outlined it here before.

Sexton was the definition a placeholder star. His job was to put asses to seats when things were dire and help the FO sell false hope to fans until the real stars showed up. Sexton was never meant to be a long term face of the franchise.

The ideal placeholder star is an exciting, charismatic scorer who can't win. He'll lead you to the lottery while flashing a great smile for the cameras.

 

[NMCav]

You have built your argument for the Sexton pick around ticket sales. You also do not have concrete data on how Sexton in a vacuum would positively or negatively change sales. All I did is point out what actually happened.

I also don't think you are arguing that Sexton is better than Bridges, correct? My stance has always been that Sexton is not a better player than Bridges, but Sexton wasn't some huge miss either.

The speculation on tickets is all you here, bro.

No. Bridges is a better player. I'm just saying when a team is starting a rebuild it's alot tougher to sell the fans on a 3-D wing vs a guard who gets buckets at a high level. And yes it's speculation on ticket sales. That can't be proven or disproven. But I know what sells tickets in the NBA and it ain't 3 and D wings.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Exactly. The Cavs of that period were a perfect fit for my Placeholder Star Theory. I've outlined it here before.

Sexton was the definition a placeholder star. His job was to put asses to seats when things were dire and help the FO sell false hope to fans until the real stars showed up. Sexton was never meant to be a long term face of the franchise.

No. Bridges is a better player. I'm just saying when a team is starting a rebuild it's alot tougher to sell the fans on a 3-D wing vs a guard who gets buckets at a high level. And yes it's speculation on ticket sales. That can't be proven or disproven. But I know what sells tickets in the NBA and it ain't 3 and D wings.

I have a hard time believing the Cavs knowingly took a less talented player for ticket sales, while at the same time starting the process of a multi-year tank job.

You don't tank and worry about short-term sales at the same time.

More likely that they thought Sexton was a younger and comparable talent to Mikal, and they were willing to gamble on Sexton having a higher ceiling... but ended up just slightly incorrect.

Again, while I would have started this rebuild differently by prioritizing talent at wing over a combo guard, it's not like the Cavs are fucked in 2022. Far from it. I just wonder, like everyone else, how all these faulted shooting guards on the roster end up fitting.

 

[foucault87]

Ochai is the next coming of Paul Pierce

 

[Cavatt]

I heard "too old and maxed out" a lot living as a castaway on Mikal Bridges Island in 2018.

He was a sophomore and I remember people argued he was too old

 

[inliner311]

No. Bridges is a better player. I'm just saying when a team is starting a rebuild it's alot tougher to sell the fans on a 3-D wing vs a guard who gets buckets at a high level. And yes it's speculation on ticket sales. That can't be proven or disproven. But I know what sells tickets in the NBA and it ain't 3 and D wings.

I think they wanted a guard to start the rebuild because its easier to develop a player who has ball handling skills and is a scorer than trying to rely on other players to help a 3&d develop. There was a ton of turnover in those first 2 years and it would have made it that much more complicated to have to keep certain player to maintain the offense or worry that your newly drafted prospect wouldn't get the ball.

 

[NMCav]

He was a sophomore and I remember people argued he was too old

He was a older junior when he was drafted. He turned 22 before his rookie year started. So the same people who argued he's too old are the same ones who say Ochai is too old.

 

[Cavatt]

He was a older junior when he was drafted. He turned 22 before his rookie year started. So the same people who argued he's too old are the same ones who say Ochai is too old.

Oh older than I thought.

Not in response to you but the general convo: I'd say Sexton is the better player in a vacuum. Like Bridges doesn't generate much on his own. He's a super role player. I really like him and I would love him on this team and would even trade Sexton for him for fit, but I'd guess he has 0 chance to make an allstar game. Sexton has higher odds than that. Even when they sucked, he wasn't the best player on his team. Which horrible team could he be traded to that would make him the best player on the team. None of them.

 

[foucault87]

Oh older than I thought.

Not in response to you but the general convo: I'd say Sexton is the better player in a vacuum. Like Bridges doesn't generate much on his own. He's a super role player. I really like him and I would love him on this team and would even trade Sexton for him for fit, but I'd guess he has 0 chance to make an allstar game. Sexton has higher odds than that. Even when they sucked, he wasn't the best player on his team. Which horrible team could he be traded to that would make him the best player on the team. None of them.

I think Bridges is mad underrated. If I am Phx I protect him over book in a KD trade