OSU's Self-imposed Sanctions

[Lee]

The entire dealings with the car don't even seem to be an issue anymore.

Pretty sure OSU feels confident in the fact they were cleared of that.

We will see. When the final ruling comes out, those type of things seem to have a way of rearing their ugly head.

And PS, just because the investigator left Columbus doesnt mean the investigation is over.

 

[AZ_]

We will see. When the final ruling comes out, those type of things seem to have a way of rearing their ugly head.

And PS, just because the investigator left Columbus doesnt mean the investigation is over.

OOOOOK.....

There aren't going to be any big surprises come August, Ohio State will already know what was found and what was cleared.

Those sanctions meetings aren't high on drama, they won't be bringing anything new to Ohio State's attention...

 

[billmac91]

Its not illegal to sell a car for a loss or little profit. Its not illegal to loan a guy a car 3 times that never even bought a car from you. Its not illegal to give a guy a good deal on a car because he signed an autograph for you. The dealership isnt in trouble. They arent on scholaraship with a NCAA sanctioned school. Its the players and the school that violated NCAA policy, but yes I will concede no laws were broken.

How many overnight loaners has anyone here ever received when their car is not in the shop nor have you actually ever bought a car from the dealership? Or how many 3 week or even 3 day test drives have you been on?

As for the UNC thing, come on now. Just because Butch does something, doesnt make it right. If Butch jumped off a bridge would you jump too. (actually I would rejoice, but that is something else). My point, UNC is going to get severaly punished. If Butch isnt directly linked like Tressel was, then he will get to keep his job. But bringing up other schools bad acts to make OSU's not look as bad is childish. But yes UNC might be worse, and yes they will pay the price when its all said and done.

The NCAA has already sent their NOA to UNC and they didn't tag them with LOIC. The punishment hasn't been handed down, but the NCAA will not be hitting UNC with LOIC. If UNC doesn't get Lack of Institutional Control after university employees are paying parking tickets and writing papers, I don't see Ohio State taking it on the chin like so many are anticipating.

Ohio State's Athletic Department has been an open book. Admittedly, they jacked up a few press conferences in horrible fashion, but when it comes to the NCAA, they are wide open. In direct contrast to USC which stone-walled the NCAA at every turn and made it as difficult as possible.

And one other point on USC in regards to stone-walling. The only reason Ohio State is in this mess is b/c OSU is a public institution so university e-mails become public domain. USC is a private university and they aren't under the same laws as Ohio State. USC didn't grant the NCAA any clearance to investigate the Bush case other than what they could gather through the Bush/Lloyd Lake trial. The fact that the NCAA had to rely on a lawsuit to gather it's information vs. the university assisting the investigation and being accessible is an ENORMOUS difference.

Truthfully, I think most people who aren't Ohio State fans just want the book thrown at the university for personal pleasure. Most outsiders aren't really willing to look at the massive differences between what happened at Ohio State and schools like USC, Auburn, Oregon, UNC.

You can call me a homer, but players trading awards for tattoos doesn't equate to paying for recruits, writing papers, paying parking tickets, etc.

Tressel got fired for covering up stupid, childish mistakes. He shouldn't have taken matters into his own hands but he did. Consequently he was fired. At least the university didn't have assistant coaches on the payroll of a sports agency, university officials paying parking tickets, have sports agents openly at practices, have a coach bail on sanctions for the NFL, have the running backs coach know about parents in a several hundred thousand dollar house, or have the head coach approve a $25,000 scouting service that included zero materials...just the signature of hand delivered players.

 

[AZ_]

The NCAA has already sent their NOA to UNC and they didn't tag them with LOIC. The punishment hasn't been handed down, but the NCAA will not be hitting UNC with LOIC. If UNC doesn't get Lack of Institutional Control after university employees are paying parking tickets and writing papers, I don't see Ohio State taking it on the chin like so many are anticipating.

Ohio State's Athletic Department has been an open book. Admittedly, they jacked up a few press conferences in horrible fashion, but when it comes to the NCAA, they are wide open. In direct contrast to USC which stone-walled the NCAA at every turn and made it as difficult as possible.

And one other point on USC in regards to stone-walling. The only reason Ohio State is in this mess is b/c OSU is a public institution so university e-mails become public domain. USC is a private university and they aren't under the same laws as Ohio State. USC didn't grant the NCAA any clearance to investigate the Bush case other than what they could gather through the Bush/Lloyd Lake trial. The fact that the NCAA had to rely on a lawsuit to gather it's information vs. the university assisting the investigation and being accessible is an ENORMOUS difference.

Truthfully, I think most people who aren't Ohio State fans just want the book thrown at the university for personal pleasure. Most outsiders aren't really willing to look at the massive differences between what happened at Ohio State and schools like USC, Auburn, Oregon, UNC.

You can call me a homer, but players trading awards for tattoos doesn't equate to paying for recruits, writing papers, paying parking tickets, etc.

Tressel got fired for covering up stupid, childish mistakes. He shouldn't have taken matters into his own hands but he did. Consequently he was fired. At least the university didn't have assistant coaches on the payroll of a sports agency, university officials paying parking tickets, have sports agents openly at practices, have a coach bail on sanctions for the NFL, have the running backs coach know about parents in a several hundred thousand dollar house, or have the head coach approve a $25,000 scouting service that included zero materials...just the signature of hand delivered players.

Nonsense.

That's basically the same as hiring an NFL consultant and calling him "assistant special teams coach" without telling compliance, and having an assistant coach FACILITATE a relationship between an athlete and a sports marketer in which six figure money changed hands.

Totally the same thing.

 

[Hurl Bruce]

Add some schollie reductions and we have a deal.

All of this talk of bowl bans and other heavy duty sanctions are non-sense without lack of institutional control and failure to monitor is ridiculous.

 

[CPK]

You were in denial that it would even get close to this bad.

It will get worse. I am thinking USC is an appropriate benchmark.

What did USC self impose on themselves?

 

[DougHeil]

Livingston does a good job:

http://www.cleveland.com/livingston/index.ssf/2011/07/ohio_state_now_treating_jim_tr.html

Ohio State now treating Jim Tressel as a rogue: Bill Livingston
Published: Friday, July 08, 2011, 6:38 PM Updated: Friday, July 08, 2011, 6:41 PM
By Bill Livingston, The Plain Dealer The Plain Dealer
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Print Suddenly, Jim Tressel did not choose to resign as Ohio State football coach, although that was the school's story on Memorial Day.


Friday the school said it "sought and accepted" the resignation of the greatest coach in Ohio State history not named Wayne Woodrow Hayes. This is the school's stance with a trip to the principal's office coming up at NCAA headquarters in Indianapolis next month. Judgment Day could be very unpleasant, so all unessential items can be thrown under the bus now.

Officials also said OSU would vacate the victories from last season, including the one in the Sugar Bowl, and impose a two-year probation on itself. Dumping Tressel and blackening his name clearly is the linchpin of the strategy to lessen future penalties.

No longer is Tressel's "body of work" a defense for the cover-up of the memorabilia sale violations, although that was the school's story in March at a fiasco of a news conference designed to defuse the explosive story. That was when school President E. Gordon Gee said he never considered firing Tressel and was more worried that the coach might dismiss him. Gee should be kept locked in his office when serious issues are on the table in the future, lest his propensity to be the boardroom clown come out again.

All the "body of work" items -- Tressel's personal kindness on many levels, the inspirational messages to students and players, the patriotic gestures to troops in the Middle East -- will never be known. But the stories are real, and, by the hundreds, especially here in his hometown, people who came into contact with him can attest to them. On many personal "scoreboards," Tressel, despite the scandal, is still ahead.

Now that is no longer a factor. Tressel is simply a rogue coach to OSU now. What Tressel did usually results in firing or resignation, so it was no surprise that he did not survive failing to report -- indeed lying about -- ethical violations.

There is at least some surprise at how swiftly OSU officials have changed their tune, though.

"The responsibility is upon Tressel. No other institutional personnel were aware" of the violations, said Ohio State's official response to the NCAA's allegations.

"The institution is embarrassed by the actions of Tressel," the statement adds.

The people at the institution were so proud of Tressel when he was winning seven Big Ten championships, the past six in a row, and one national championship, though.

So proud, and so willing to look the other way. There was ample room for Ohio State to have been embarrassed before. Maurice Clarett, the best player on the 2002 national championship team in Tressel's second season; Troy Smith, the 2006 Heisman Trophy winner; and Terrelle Pryor, the starting quarterback for most of the past three seasons, were the highest-profile players of the Tressel era. They were all suspended for receiving improper benefits.

In March, OSU was willing to limit Tressel's punishment for the cover-up to the wrist-slap of a $250,000 fine and two-game suspension. Reportedly, OSU will forget about the fine now. In exchange, the fingers that once signaled "We're No. 1" will now point incriminatingly at the former coach.

Despite the dribble of negative stories that came out, the scandal that claimed Tressel's job was never as big as academic fraud in the Minnesota basketball program years ago. There was no payroll to meet, as at SMU in the Pony Express Days. It was not former Oklahoma coach Barry Switzer complaining, "I never knew I had to put signs up in the dorms that said, 'No shootin', no dopin', no rapin'."

It was not covering up positive drug tests, as at the University of Miami under former coach Dennis Erickson.

Tressel was, however, a trimmer, as are many successful coaches. He polished an image as a scrupulous follower of the rules, then got caught breaking them. The response in the media was toxic.

A hypocrite is the media's favorite meat. Scapegoat, however, is clearly the meal of choice at Ohio State.

I think it's shameful what OSU's story is now. They covered for him on every step and now they toss him aside like a piece of meat? Wow. I believe I will seriously consider changing college teams as a fan. What OSU is putting out there now is disgraceful.

 

[Tornicade]

its kinda funny if osu had never appealed the suspensions. they would still have a coach and no sanctions at all.

whatever ncaa sanctions are imposed it will have nothing to do with players getting tattos for pay.
it was about the coach getting an e mail and choosing to let the fbi investigation report the facts as opposed report an allegation from an attourney who can face disbarment for his actions.

the lying to the ncaa about that e mail.

in that perspective if I was in the NCAA rules infraction committee and seen such drastic steps taken by the OSU administration. I would send my investigator back to columbus to see what they are trying to cover up.

 

[billmac91]

Livingston does a good job:



I think it's shameful what OSU's story is now. They covered for him on every step and now they toss him aside like a piece of meat? Wow. I believe I will seriously consider changing college teams as a fan. What OSU is putting out there now is disgraceful.

It also shows the heart of gold Tressel has...he has to be a willing participant in this story and I have no doubt he will do whatever the university needs in order for the school to get the least amount of punishment as possible.

The guy made a huge mistake, but take one look at the football APR rate and you see what an amazing man the guy is. It's crazy to think about the impact Tressel has left at Ohio State. Team GPA is remarkable, community service has been a focus since his first day on campus, and the molding of troubled kids into productive adults even after they've crossed him is something everyone can learn from.

He should not have tried to handle Pryor and co. in-house, and it cost him his job. But the biggest losers in this entire mess are the 85 scholarship athletes who lose the mentorship of an amazing teacher....

 

[calleger]

It also shows the heart of gold Tressel has...he has to be a willing participant in this story and I have no doubt he will do whatever the university needs in order for the school to get the least amount of punishment as possible.

Additionally, Tressel and the university today announced an agreement under which Tressel will change his previously announced resignation to a retirement. The agreement also ends and resolves any issues arising out of Tressel’s employment with Ohio State. Tressel and the university believe this agreement is reasonable and in the parties’ best interests.

Besides agreeing to change his resignation to retirement, Ohio State backed off its vow to collect a $250,000 fine for violating NCAA rules. Tressel argued that he had paid enough, Elliott said.

"Stepping down after 10 years as the Buckeyes' head coach will cost him far more than $250,000," he said.

Before his resignation, Tressel was to have been sanctioned with a five-game suspension in addition to being fined.

Instead, the university will pay him $52,250 - the equivalent of the salary and benefits he would have earned through the end of June 30th.

OSU's decision to drop the fine goes against an assertion by Gee last month that Tressel would be required to pay no matter what the other terms of his departure were.

"We've levied a $250,000 fine against the coach, and he will pay that," Gee told The Dispatch on June 11th.

Gee could not be reached this afternoon.


Tressel also will collect his unpaid sick and vacation time up to 250 hours and will be eligible for health-insurance coverage for himself and his family under the plan available to all state retirees, according to the settlement.

Under his contract, Tressel was to be offered a tenured faculty position at Ohio State, but Gee said last month that the coach's return as a teacher was "highly unlikely."

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2011/07/08/0708-ohio-state-tressel.html?sid=101

Plenty of motivation there.

 

[billmac91]

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2011/07/08/0708-ohio-state-tressel.html?sid=101

Plenty of motivation there.

Tressel is about to take it on the chin for the betterment of the university. I'd say it's worth it to the university to make JT the fall guy. That is prob worth $250,000.

In June when Tressel resigned, Gene Smith kept saying Tressel asked to resign. Then yesterday the story changes to "Gene Smith told JT to resign or he would be fired".

Which was it?

I have a feeling the story has changed to get every ounce of leverage with the NCAA that firing the coach was punishment enough on top of self imposed sanctions.

 

[DougHeil]

Also, does anyone really believe this stuff OSU is now doing like forfeiting all wins last year along with the bowl game is going to sway the NCAA at all? I don't know how it could. Who the fuck cares if the records show 0-12 or whatever for last year? I know I don't. Everyone will always know what the scoop is for this past year so OSU making like they are giving something away in order to soften any blows come August is really a pathetic attempt by OSU at best. Heck, if it were up to me and I was one who had a part in decisions at the NCAA, I'd be more apt to lower the boom even more because of the way OSU has acted and is acting with this entire issue. OSU has now become a total embarrassment in my mind.

All upper bosses with the entire program need to be fired starting with Gee and Smith. I'm tired of the crap. Besides, I use to like Mr. Magoo as a kid. I didn't think I'd be watching him all the way through my adult years as well as the guy who presided over one of the top college football programs in the country. Get rid of him please.

 

[natedagg]

No need for the potshots back and forth between posters. Simply state your prediction going forward and comment on what has been done...

The whole self-imposed violation game is like poker. OSU wants to punish itself badly enough to have their punishment be enough, but not too severely to hinder their future. Will the NCAA call their bluff, and if they do, how big will they raise? My take is that some higher-ups at OSU and some from the NCAA have already negotiated a course of action. A competitive Buckeyes program means a lot to the NCAA, just not at the expense of the NCAA's reputation. I also think that Tressel agreed to be the fall guy, so he is just keeping his mouth shut like the consummate professional that he is (I still love the guy and wish him nothing but the best). There is some agreement there too that we'll probably never explicitly hear the details of. All in all, it's just a shitty thing to think about tOSU without the Vest on the sidelines, and it's a bit surreal that we are talking about all of this. For me, the sanctions ahead pale in comparison to the gravest concern of all: who will be the next great coach for OSU?

 

[Wulfgar1224]

You were in denial that it would even get close to this bad.

It will get worse. I am thinking USC is an appropriate benchmark.

I'm curious as to why. A lot of the pundits feel that same way as well. Everyone is just spitting out give them the USC punishment but no one ever specifies why. The two cases really aren't that closely related.

USC had violations going on in three major sports at the same time (football, basketball, and women's tennis). People seem to conveniently be forgetting the whole OJ Mayo fiasco there. That played a big part in the LOIC and penalties on the USC football program. Bush was found to have been bankrolled by agents, with housing, airfare, fictitious jobs. So far, all OSU has been proven to have done is hookups at a tattoo parlor and a coverup of it. I've heard the old it's not the crime it is the coverup. But to what end? If anything can be credibly proven that Pryor was getting cash for autographs then the situations become closer. The car business has turned up snake eyes unfortunately for OSU haters. The SI article was supposed to nuke the program but it turned out to be a bunch of crap.

People rip the OSU people for arrogance. At least they have a compliance department. Geez. What about USC? They stonewalled the investigation for years and last time I checked USC didn't self impose any penalties or even bother to have a compliance department.

Also, does anyone really believe this stuff OSU is now doing like forfeiting all wins last year along with the bowl game is going to sway the NCAA at all? I don't know how it could. Who the fuck cares if the records show 0-12 or whatever for last year? I know I don't. Everyone will always know what the scoop is for this past year so OSU making like they are giving something away in order to soften any blows come August is really a pathetic attempt by OSU at best. Heck, if it were up to me and I was one who had a part in decisions at the NCAA, I'd be more apt to lower the boom even more because of the way OSU has acted and is acting with this entire issue. OSU has now become a total embarrassment in my mind.

That's fine if you want the penalties to be harsher. But, was OSU really supposed to give themselves scholarship reductions and a bowl ban? Has any program in the history of college football ever done that to themselves. Did USC do that? You think Auburn and Oregon are gonna punish themselves for the heck of it? OSU has been cooperative with the NCAA investigators. Would stonewalling like USC did and going into a bunker mentality like Oregon is doing be better? Let the NCAA make their case. That's their job. Right now there have been a lot more unsubstantiated allegations than proven crimes in so far as I can see.

 

[DougHeil]

I'm curious as to why. A lot of the pundits feel that same way as well. Everyone is just spitting out give them the USC punishment but no one ever specifies why. The two cases really aren't that closely related.

USC had violations going on in three major sports at the same time (football, basketball, and women's tennis). People seem to conveniently be forgetting the whole OJ Mayo fiasco there. That played a big part in the LOIC and penalties on the USC football program. Bush was found to have been bankrolled by agents, with housing, airfare, fictitious jobs. So far, all OSU has been proven to have done is hookups at a tattoo parlor and a coverup of it. I've heard the old it's not the crime it is the coverup. But to what end? If anything can be credibly proven that Pryor was getting cash for autographs then the situations become closer. The car business has turned up snake eyes unfortunately for OSU haters. The SI article was supposed to nuke the program but it turned out to be a bunch of crap.

People rip the OSU people for arrogance. At least they have a compliance department. Geez. What about USC? They stonewalled the investigation for years and last time I checked USC didn't self impose any penalties or even bother to have a compliance department.



That's fine if you want the penalties to be harsher. But, was OSU really supposed to give themselves scholarship reductions and a bowl ban? Has any program in the history of college football ever done that to themselves. Did USC do that? You think Auburn and Oregon are gonna punish themselves for the heck of it? OSU has been cooperative with the NCAA investigators. Would stonewalling like USC did and going into a bunker mentality like Oregon is doing be better? Let the NCAA make their case. That's their job. Right now there have been a lot more unsubstantiated allegations than proven crimes in so far as I can see.

I'm sure not. But they gave themselves a little slap and expect the NCAA to accept it. That's ludicrous. OSU has handled this from the beginning like they have no clue as to what they are doing. They still don't know. They could have done something like took away a few scholarships to make it look a tad bit better. What they gave themselves is and will be laughable. Unless they already have some kind of deal worked out with the NCAA anyway.