Replacing Baker Mayfield: Poll

[CBBI]

I will say this for Jimmy...

49ers Pass Blocking Grades by Year
2017: 14th
2018: 17th
2019: 19th
2020: 24th
2021: 7th

It's possible that if he came to the Browns, he'd be protected better than he's ever been protected.

 

[Urban]

Except Jimmy G can push the ball downfield

No he absolutely cannot.

Are you saying that Baker is one of the best in the league at pushing the ball downfield? Is Baker one of the best in the league at anything.

No, I'm not saying this. You asked me what Baker is better at than Jimmy G and i told you. He's absolutely better at pushing the ball downside than Jimmy G. Like undisputedly.

Are you saying that Jimmy G one of the best in the league at anything?



Listen, Los, it's clear you want to move on from Baker at all costs. It's also clear you know absolutely nothing about Jimmy Garopolo other than his box score and QBR or whatever this year looks nicer than Baker's.

I'm all for moving on for a guy who gives the Browns a better chance to win next year. I'll take a hopefully healthy Baker in year 3 in Stefanski's system over Jimmy G. Take away Shanahan's scheme with explosive athletes like Deebo Samuel and George Kittle and replace them with possession guys like Jarvis Landry and Austin Hooper. Don't think you're gonna like what you see.

 

[CBBI]

2020 Baker Mayfield, IIIRC, was the 12th DVOA QB including his horrid start, and two of the worst weather games in the entire league.

We finished around 13/14, and that was in spite of him. You would have had both a top ten offense and defense, and they would have undoubtedly made the playoffs, and probably win the division.

I don’t think he’s the guy, but let’s not pretend that with a 12-15 season, this team doesn’t limp to 8-9. He probably makes the playoffs, and gets 35 mil.

Baker DVOA | Browns Offense DVOA
2020: 17th | 9th
2021: 23rd | 14th

The Browns offense overall has pretty significantly outproduced its QB individually in each of the last two years.

 

[Urban]

Is 2020 Baker better than Mahomes, Burrow, Herbert, Watson (for now), Jackson, Carr, Tannehill, or Allen?

Is Jimmy G better than any of those guys?

Absolutely not. LMAO, what are we ever talking about?

"Gotta trade the 9th best QB in the AFC for a guy who'd be the 9th best QB in the AFC"

 

[DJTJ]

Baker DVOA | Browns Offense DVOA
2020: 17th | 9th
2021: 23rd | 14th

The Browns offense overall has pretty significantly outproduced its QB individually in each of the last two years.

Can you post SF, because I’m guessing it’s much of the same.

Winning in spite of because the scheme is that good.

 

[Steve_424]

Isn’t this the whole point that Baker supporters are making though? You guys continue to prop Baker up off of a 10 game stretch in 2020 when we are comparing his entire body of work to other QB’s.

Ever time another option at QB get mentioned they get shit down and people say they suck or aren’t an upgrade over Baker but what those people are slinging is clinging to a 10 game stretch in 2020 when we were playing a soft schedule in half empty stadiums.

Baker has played 60 games and we’re supposed to believe that overall going forward he’s more likely to be as good as he was in a 10 game stretch in 2020 against a soft schedule and empty stadiums than the other 50 games of his career? Forgive me for not buying what people are selling.

You're doing it again.

The hard part with Baker is that literally nobody knows how he'll play in 2022 when healthy. You bring up the 10 games but fail to mention he looked damn good before he hurt his shoulder on that tackle. Small sample size? Of course. But it can't be ignored either. And we can't ignore when he looked like complete ass either. The only way to truly find out is to get him 100%, add some better pass-catchers (which you need regardless of your QB), and see what you have.

Here's the bottom line though, that some can't accept - unless Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers pushes for a trade AND pushes their way here, Baker will be the guy in 2022.

 

[Urban]

I will say this for Jimmy...

49ers Pass Blocking Grades by Year
2017: 14th
2018: 17th
2019: 19th
2020: 24th
2021: 7th

It's possible that if he came to the Browns, he'd be protected better than he's ever been protected.

Regardless of who is playing QB next year, I am a bit concerned with the Week 1 OL if they decide to cut Tretter.

 

[CBBI]

Can you post SF, because I’m guessing it’s much of the same.

Winning in spite of because the scheme is that good.

It's tough to accurately judge Jimmy and the 49ers because he's missed so many games and the 49ers have played some really crappy quarterbacks in his place which have dropped their team DVOA.

But still probably not what you would expect. Jimmy, at least statistically, has held up his end of the bargain pretty well.

2017
49ers Offense: 19th
Garoppolo (5 starts): 1st
Hoyer (6 starts): 28th
Beatherd (5 starts): 31st

2018
49ers Offense: 27th
Mullens (8 starts): 18th
Garoppolo (3 starts): 27th
Beatherd (5 starts): 33rd

2019
49ers Offense: 7th
Garoppolo (16 starts): 11th

2020
49ers Offense: 20th
Mullens (8 starts): 25th
Garoppolo (6 starts): 13th
Beatherd (2 starts): 22nd

2021
49ers Offense: 5th
Garoppolo (15 starts): 5th
Lance (2 starts): 4th

 

[CBBI]

Here's the bottom line though, that some can't accept - unless Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers pushes for a trade AND pushes their way here, Baker will be the guy in 2022.

The number of potentially available quarterbacks that the Browns could acquire who would keep Baker from being the starter is larger than two.

Could strike out on everybody? Sure. Some guys have no-trade clauses. Some guys inevitably will be shopped, but not moved.

But the list is certainly more than just the two names you mentioned.

 

[DJTJ]

It's tough to accurately judge Jimmy and the 49ers because he's missed so many games and the 49ers have played some really crappy quarterbacks in his place which have dropped their team DVOA.

But still probably not what you would expect. Jimmy, at least statistically, had held up his end of the bargain pretty well.

2017
49ers Offense: 19th
Garoppolo (5 starts): 1st
Hoyer (6 starts): 28th
Beatherd (5 starts): 31st

2018
49ers Offense: 27th
Mullens (8 starts): 18th
Garoppolo (3 starts): 27th
Beatherd (5 starts): 33rd

2019
49ers Offense: 7th
Garoppolo (16 starts): 11th

2020
49ers Offense: 20th
Mullens (8 starts): 25th
Garoppolo (6 starts): 13th
Beatherd (2 starts): 22nd

2021
49ers Offense: 5th
Garoppolo (15 starts): 5th
Lance (2 starts): 4th

Does DVOA shit the bed when not over a long haul?

Lance was really bad in one of his starts. Does it also overvalue GWD over a regular win, as it sees it as a more powerful performance?

 

[CBBI]

Does DVOA shit the bed when not over a long haul?

Lance was really bad in one of his starts. Does it also overvalue GWD over a regular win, as it sees it as a more powerful performance?

I have to assume like anything else the larger the sample size the more accurate representation of what the numbers really mean.

But also those DVOA numbers are for the full season and Lance had two very efficient relief appearances for Jimmy in the first month of the season too.

In any event, if we narrow it down to Jimmy’s only two full, non-injured seasons as a starter he has ranked 11th and 5th in DVOA in those seasons.

 

[DJTJ]

I have to assume like anything else the larger the sample size the more accurate representation of what the numbers really mean.

But also those DVOA numbers are for the full season and Lance had two very efficient relief appearances for Jimmy in the first month of the season too.

In any event, if we narrow it down to Jimmy’s only two full seasons as a starter he has ranked 11th and 5th in DVOA in those seasons.

How much use do you get out of the subscription for Footballl Outsiders?

 

[Los216]

So we’re not only evaluating a 10 game sample size of games for Baker right? Are we looking at his entire body of work that includes all 60 games?

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

You can spout every stat you want about Jimmy G. And I will tell you that this fucker is a turnover machine and is incredibly inconsistent down the field. He benefits from having Deebo Samuel the YAC Machine to inflate his stats and worth, not to mention a beast like George Kittle.

Jimmy ain't shit.

 

[CBBI]

So we’re not only evaluating a 10 game sample size of games for Baker right? Are we looking at his entire body of work that includes all 60 games?

I’m not a big Baker fan obviously, but I think it’s fair to only use judge his time with Stefanski when making an evaluation on what we think we will be moving forward since anything moving forward will be under Stefanski.