Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Class

[Randolphkeys]

This just in...

Performer Category:
· Foo Fighters
· The Go-Go's
· JAY-Z
· Carole King
· Todd Rundgren
· Tina Turner

Ahmet Ertegun Award:
· Clarence Avant

Musical Excellence Award:
· LL Cool J
· Billy Preston
· Randy Rhoads

Early Influence Award:
· Kraftwerk
· Gil Scott Heron
· Charley Patton

Reactions?

 

[Sebastian]

This just in...

Performer Category:
· Foo Fighters
· The Go-Go's
· JAY-Z
· Carole King
· Todd Rundgren
· Tina Turner

Ahmet Ertegun Award:
· Clarence Avant

Musical Excellence Award:
· LL Cool J
· Billy Preston
· Randy Rhoads

Reactions?

Billy Preston! Nice. [Plays electric piano].

The guy that almost became the fifth Beatle, and a guy so cool, so groovy, and so laid-back, that he was a moderating influence on the group even as they were falling apart. Only one of a handful of musicians to be credited on a Beatles song.

He was an immensely talented song-writer in his own right and was nominated for nine Grammys, and won two. And he contributed to some of the biggest acts of the era and was universally respected.

I also think he was unfairly persecuted for drug use when everyone in the business was doing the same thing,

In any event, overdue.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Billy Preston! Nice. [Plays electric piano].

The guy that almost became the fifth Beatle, and a guy so cool, so groovy, and so laid-back, that he was a moderating influence on the group even as they were falling apart. Only one of a handful of musicians to be credited on a Beatles song.

He was an immensely talented song-writer in his own right and was nominated for nine Grammys, and won two. And he contributed to some of the biggest acts of the era and was universally respected.

I also think he was unfairly persecuted for drug use when everyone in the business was doing the same thing,

In any event, overdue.

The unexpected Billy Preston add was dope. I am not terribly surprised because Ringo and Paul are extremely influential in the old school "back-channel" way into the Rock Hall. That said, I agree with everything you wrote. His role in the final Beatles album deserves recognition.

This "Musical Excellence" and "Early Influencers" Awards are going to be fun to track throughout the years. The R&RHOF are basically admitting that the most important actual musical influencers can't consistently get in.

Favorites of mine abound. They tried to push LL Cool J in so many times, but he is more of a romantic lyricist while rap often pushed a harder, tougher exterior.

They accepted he would be a hard sell, along with the orchestral-metal ability of Rhoads, lyrical invention of Gil Scott-Heron, and technical invention of Kraftwerk. They basically pushed through a bunch of important people through the secret side door, and I'm more than okay with it.

BTW - @RchfldCavRaised turned me on to Gil Scott-Heron and I owe him a huge "thank you" a decade later. He plays with word order because he was an academic, a radical, and a multi-lingual lyricist. It's a stunning body of lyrical work. I do believe freestyle rap isn't what it became without Heron.

 

[WellYouNeednt]

I hate the fucking Foo Fighters, so i hate that they will get in. Personally, they are a band that went in reverse — they got progressively lame with each album. Now they are that band championing “classic rock” and are reliably boring.

The Go Go’s, i do not understand. Their discography boasts 3 studio albums from the 80’s and one from 2001? Not exactly earth shattering.

I mean, we are talking about the Rock Hall here and more times than not — the truly influential bands are left behind.

 

[sportscoach]

A lot of people are complaining that Iron Maiden didn't get in even though they were top 5 in the game for to get in...

 

[Randolphkeys]

The Go Go’s, i do not understand. Their discography boasts 3 studio albums from the 80’s and one from 2001? Not exactly earth shattering.

You may want to check out the documentary on HULU. It's a strong argument on why the establishment passed over their career as well as roadblocks they encountered. I will agree that the annual "there's not enough women in this Hall of Fame" helped them get in. At the same time, there are a lot of reasons so few talented women broke through in actual rock.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I hate the fucking Foo Fighters, so i hate that they will get in. Personally, they are a band that went in reverse — they got progressively lame with each album. Now they are that band championing “classic rock” and are reliably boring.

The Go Go’s, i do not understand. Their discography boasts 3 studio albums from the 80’s and one from 2001? Not exactly earth shattering.

I mean, we are talking about the Rock Hall here and more times than not — the truly influential bands are left behind.

As I understand it, they deserved to get in because they were an all-girl band who wrote and played their own stuff and had a couple of hits. Which, apart from the all-girl stuff, describes hundreds of other rock bands. In terms of influence...well, if they were that influential, how come they didn't beget a flood of girl bands who wrote/played their own stuff, and about whom we all are talking now?

Don't get me wrong -- I'm not trashing them and saying they sucked. They didn't. But they were basically just a competent rock band, completely forgettable in a historical sense if not for the fact that they were female.

 

[Randolphkeys]

As I understand it, they deserved to get in because they were an all-girl band who wrote and played their own stuff and had a couple of hits. Which, apart from the all-girl stuff, describes hundreds of other rock bands. In terms of influence...well, if they were that influential, how come they didn't beget a flood of girl bands who wrote/played their own stuff, and about whom we all are talking now?

Don't get me wrong -- I'm not trashing them and saying they sucked. They didn't. But they were basically just a competent rock band, completely forgettable in a historical sense if not for the fact that they were female.

You also described Guns n' Roses, subconsciously. The only difference between the career arc of Guns n' Roses and The Go Go's is penises. Fact.

* Developed out of the competitive L.A. live music scene of the 1980s.

* Recorded an impact first album that stands the test of time.

* Hard drug use chipped away at their quality in the following albums.

* Drugs especially took a toll on the quality of lyrics after several years: Axl went racist and misogynistic while Belinda Carlisle went lite rock.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

You also described Guns n' Roses, subconsciously. The only difference between the career arc of Guns n' Roses and The Go Go's is penises. Fact.

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Anyway, I'm not sure what you by "career arc", but the Go-Go's debut album sold 2 million copies, and they've sold 7 million total.
"Appetite for Destruction" alone sold more than 30 million copies, and they've sold more than 100 million total.

That's a lot of penises.

* Developed out of the competitive L.A. live music scene of the 1980s.

Along with...how many other 100's of bands?

* Recorded an impact first album that stands the test of time.

Meh. Good - not great or even innovative - first album.

* Hard drug use chipped away at their quality in the following albums.

* Drugs especially took a toll on the quality of lyrics after several years: Axl went racist and misogynistic while Belinda Carlisle went lite rock.

Since when is "we used drugs" considered a unusual, special consideration for a rock band? The list of bands that didn't would be much shorter. A band of dudes making those exact same songs and having the exact same career arc wouldn't even be considered for a nomination. It's like they're being graded on a Special Olympics curve just because they're chicks.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Anyway, I'm not sure what you by "career arc", but the Go-Go's debut album sold 2 million copies, and they've sold 7 million total.
"Appetite for Destruction" alone sold more than 30 million copies, and they've sold more than 100 million total.

That's a lot of penises.



Along with...how many other 100's of bands?



Meh. Good - not great or even innovative - first album.



Since when is "we used drugs" considered a unusual, special consideration for a rock band? The list of bands that didn't would be much shorter. A band of dudes making those exact same songs and having the exact same career arc wouldn't even be considered for a nomination. It's like they're being graded on a Special Olympics curve just because they're chicks.

Wait, we are having a serious discussion? Judging by your initial lazy strawman post we were just fooling around here.

Anyways, check out the documentary. It's worth the hour and a half and then you might have more perspective.

Meantime, they are letting Carol King and Tina Turner in for a second time each... that's the bigger issue. The recording and corporate radio business was incredibly manipulative - there was never an even playing field among male acts, let alone some progressive movement to push female acts from the 1950s through the internet revolution of the industry. There's just a lacking in representation of women in the corporate side of rock, and the record companies who failed to push female talent for so long have a lot to do with it. The fact it looks bad now is just a payment to the piper.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Wait, we are having a serious discussion? Judging by your initial lazy strawman post we were just fooling around here.

Anyways, check out the documentary. It's worth the hour and a half and then you might have more perspective.

Every band has their background story, but I believe bands should be judged on their music/concerts rather than whatever dramatic off-stage backstory they may have.
So in that respect, it's tellling that you suggest I validate their HOF credentials by watching a documentary rather than by listening to their actual music.

II remember when the Go-Go's debut album came out, and while it was good enough within its genre, I don't think it was either exceptional in quality, nor was it particularly innovative. I'm sure a hagiographic documentary might claim differently, but the music was what it was.

Meantime, they are letting Carol King and Tina Turner in for a second time each... that's the bigger issue. There's just a lacking in representation of women in the corporate side of rock, and the record companies who failed to push female talent for so long have a lot to do with it.

I personally don't care whether women in particular are represented in rock. I just care about the music. Women were extremely successful in pop, disco, country, etc. Heart, Joan Jett, The Pretenders, Siouxsie and the Banshees, etc., all had success in rock, and there were plenty of female crossover musicians as well. Given that, I have a really hard time believing that there was some great undiscovered female hard rock band out there that was superior to all of those bands, and that only failed because record companies wouldn't support female bands.

To put it differently, the Go-Go's made 3 albums in the 80's. It wasn't record companies that prevented them from making better music than they actually made.

ETA:. I'd personally consider Siouxsie and the Banshees more deserving. Not the same sales, and not even my type of music, but they've got a better claim to being innovative, or at least being more unique.

 

[bronko]

E
Meantime, they are letting Carol King and Tina Turner in for a second time each... that's the bigger issue.

Man, this is so wrong. Carole King is probably the most successful female talent in rock history. And rivals nearly any male. Maybe not the biggest performer, but she sold 75 million albums, and Tapestry was #1 for 15 weeks and stayed on the charts for six straight years. Not to mention hundreds of other her songs that were recorded by other artists.
Tina Turner was the female James Brown, the hardest working woman in show biz. Her solo career justifies a second nod, and her work with Ike was more than deserving. I would say these are the most deserving of all this year's nominees. And if the second honor didn't bother Clapton, McCartney, and a dozen others, I don't see these two as being terribly different.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Man, this is so wrong. Carole King is probably the most successful female talent in rock history. And rivals nearly any male. Maybe not the biggest performer, but she sold 75 million albums, and Tapestry was #1 for 15 weeks and stayed on the charts for six straight years. Not to mention hundreds of other her songs that were recorded by other artists.
Tina Turner was the female James Brown, the hardest working woman in show biz. Her solo career justifies a second nod, and her work with Ike was more than deserving. I would say these are the most deserving of all this year's nominees. And if the second honor didn't bother Clapton, McCartney, and a dozen others, I don't see these two as being terribly different.

Carole King is just a musical beast.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I think one decent sign of a HOF worthy artist is one whose genius/impact you can recognize even if you don't like the genre. "I don't really like that kind of music, but damn they're good" is a good indicator of something special.

 

[WellYouNeednt]

I think one decent sign of a HOF worthy artist is one whose genius/impact you can recognize even if you don't like the genre. "I don't really like that kind of music, but damn they're good" is a good indicator of something special.

I would add to this an observation — most innovative artists or the “creators” of a genre are usually not as “popular” or commercially successful, as the artists/bands that were influenced by them. Additionally, many of them are NOT in the Rock Hall, unfortunately. This where i see a massive disconnect with the Rock Hall.

It is what it is.