Second half 22 GM Thread!

[CDAV45]

If posting historical facts about the failure rate of high school pitchers taken in the first round is drivel so be it.

(Notice how long its been since we've heard anything about Espino)

A little more drivel for the deniers...

The earth is round.

***********

Folks say that they expect to contend with rookies...rookies last year...rookies this year...rookies next year...rookies in 2024. Then they insist that they don't expect rookies to perform at the level of those they replace.

You can't contend if you are getting worse, or merely treading water.

This org can easily afford Amed next year...and long term, if they choose to do so. Amed isn't going to break the bank.

**********

We still need more starting pitching, for this year and next.

I don't think they'll keep Amed, but if they do how can anyone be upset by that idea? I also agree that Amed's money "won't break the bank".

While I don't necessarily agree that we need "more" SP, I do believe we could stand to upgrade it before the Espino's, Williams, Bibees and Cantillos start to surface. I'd love to see an arm like Lopez added that can be kept through the wide open window of contention and help us in the here and now too.

I don't agree with your take on HS pitchers. I do agree that they are the least likely to make it when it comes to prospects, but they are arms taken that early for a reason. Espino is our best SP prospect and maybe the best in all of baseball. While you don't believe your "facts" can be argued, there is reasons why an organization that is ran as intelligently as Cleveland's chose him. You seem to be denying that fact.

Not only are we contending with rookies right now, we're getting better every time we bring another highly regarded one up. That probably isn't going to change. It's time to see Naylor. It would be nice to see what Benson and Brennan could add. If Clement is going to get meaningful playing time then it's time to replace him. It's a great to see this team being competitive while trying to find its identity. I don't expect that to change until 2024, but that doesn't mean we can't win until then which is made obvious by the current play.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

If posting historical facts about the failure rate of high school pitchers taken in the first round is drivel so be it.

(Notice how long its been since we've heard anything about Espino)

A little more drivel for the deniers...

The earth is round.

***********

Folks say that they expect to contend with rookies...rookies last year...rookies this year...rookies next year...rookies in 2024. Then they insist that they don't expect rookies to perform at the level of those they replace.

You can't contend if you are getting worse, or merely treading water.

This org can easily afford Amed next year...and long term, if they choose to do so. Amed isn't going to break the bank.

**********

We still need more starting pitching, for this year and next.

Why would you just present failure rates in Cleveland? It's not like this front office was the same that drafted every other one. I think MLB as a whole would be more valuable data.

I also think the data is less useful than it could be when it isn't presented next to the data for pitchers who were drafted out of college.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

My overall take on the position players:

1. I am doing this all with the mindset that 2024 begins our window for a world championship.
2. Kwan (LF), Straw (CF), Jose (3B), Gimenez (MIF) appear settled.
3. One of Freeman/Arias/Rocchio should be our starting MIF next to Gimenez in 2023. Amed Rosario, thank you for what you've done here--but we're going to trade you during the offseason. We have limited financial resources to spend, and we shouldn't spend it in a place where we have a glut of options to not only replace your production, but exceed it.
4. I have high hopes for Bo Naylor to take over at C, but I'm not 100% against going with someone proven instead.
5. This leaves DH, 1B and RF open for the following players:
   1. Josh Naylor
   2. Nolan Jones
   3. Will Benson
   4. Jhonkensy Noel
   5. George Valera
   6. Oscar Gonzalez
   7. Will Brennan
6. Yes, I'm leaving Franmil off the list. I am trying to trade him, and would move him to AAA as soon as the trade deadline passes if he isn't dealt. Open up one more spot in the order to get these kids some experience.
7. It's a unique problem to have with all of these athletes. Moving someone like Benson to 1B isn't a terrible idea. It's nice to have a big, athletic guy there. Although, at the same time, an OF of Kwan/Straw/Benson might have the most range ever assembled.
8. I don't think it's a crazy idea to pencil in something like Josh Naylor at DH, Will Benson at 1B and George Valera in RF. This means that, although I love what he's shown so far, I don't have a problem if the organization included Nolan Jones in a trade to make us better. Even if some of them fail, we still have a glut from that list above, as well as the MIF'ers to fill the hole--we also can spend money in free agency once we know what holes we have.
9. My ideal 2024 lineup might look something like this:
   1. Kwan, LF
   2. Ramirez, 3B
   3. Benson, 1B
   4. Valera, RF
   5. Josh Naylor, DH
   6. Gimenez, 2B
   7. Rocchio, SS
   8. Bo Naylor, C
   9. Straw, CF

And... I still don't have a spot for Jhonkensy, or Nolan Jones, or if anyone else pops off. Deal from the glut to shore up the uncertainty.

 

[kriegs]

Bohm crushes the ball.. is at least average to above average defensively.. and it wouldn't make sense if your BS comment had any truth to it..

Got anything to back that up other than name calling?



And so you say he wouldn't play 3rd, cool. But I would not be a fan of putting a player with this hitting profile in the 1B/DH role either. Low BB rate and doesn't project to hit over 20 HRs in a season. It seems the Guardians would be even lower on him there than I am. Are there any examples of players with this profile the Guardians have been high on?



And cool, they get a good C prospect who is close to the majors. I'm pretty sure most of this board thinks we already have one of those in-house. I can't think of a worse way we could cash in those valuable trade chips this deadline.

 

[Gson]

Got anything to back that up other than name calling?



And so you say he wouldn't play 3rd, cool. But I would not be a fan of putting a player with this hitting profile in the 1B/DH role either. Low BB rate and doesn't project to hit over 20 HRs in a season. It seems the Guardians would be even lower on him there than I am. Are there any examples of players with this profile the Guardians have been high on?

View attachment 11137

And cool, they get a good C prospect who is close to the majors. I'm pretty sure most of this board thinks we already have one of those in-house. I can't think of a worse way we could cash in those valuable trade chips this deadline.

Only you and "obscured by being brainless" would conclude this guy can't hit/mash.. or that the Guardians are not in need of catching. Cherry pick some more stats and massage them until they're peanut butter.. and you'll arrive at: ".. this guy can mash..." and O'Hoppe plus Naylor plus Lavastida plus ______________ (fill in name of ONE MORE catcher) is approaching a satisfactory number..

You don't want to see things any other way.. So be it..

 

[sportscoach]

Cardinals Trade Infielder Edmundo Sosa to Phillies

The Cardinals have traded infielder Edmundo Sosa to the Phillies. Get more details on the swap at MLB Trade Rumors.

www.mlbtraderumors.com

I wasn't expecting this one...

Rosario's trade value just went down in a sense cause one of the teams looking to get him, is off the market now...

Edit: Phillies got him for a AAAA type lefty reliever... Sosa hasn't been good this year, but he is a solid defensive SS.

Edit: Cardinals actually may try to get a different SS...

 

[petes999]

My overall take on the position players:

1. I am doing this all with the mindset that 2024 begins our window for a world championship.
2. Kwan (LF), Straw (CF), Jose (3B), Gimenez (MIF) appear settled.
3. One of Freeman/Arias/Rocchio should be our starting MIF next to Gimenez in 2023. Amed Rosario, thank you for what you've done here--but we're going to trade you during the offseason. We have limited financial resources to spend, and we shouldn't spend it in a place where we have a glut of options to not only replace your production, but exceed it.
4. I have high hopes for Bo Naylor to take over at C, but I'm not 100% against going with someone proven instead.
5. This leaves DH, 1B and RF open for the following players:
   1. Josh Naylor
   2. Nolan Jones
   3. Will Benson
   4. Jhonkensy Noel
   5. George Valera
   6. Oscar Gonzalez
   7. Will Brennan
6. Yes, I'm leaving Franmil off the list. I am trying to trade him, and would move him to AAA as soon as the trade deadline passes if he isn't dealt. Open up one more spot in the order to get these kids some experience.
7. It's a unique problem to have with all of these athletes. Moving someone like Benson to 1B isn't a terrible idea. It's nice to have a big, athletic guy there. Although, at the same time, an OF of Kwan/Straw/Benson might have the most range ever assembled.
8. I don't think it's a crazy idea to pencil in something like Josh Naylor at DH, Will Benson at 1B and George Valera in RF. This means that, although I love what he's shown so far, I don't have a problem if the organization included Nolan Jones in a trade to make us better. Even if some of them fail, we still have a glut from that list above, as well as the MIF'ers to fill the hole--we also can spend money in free agency once we know what holes we have.
9. My ideal 2024 lineup might look something like this:
   1. Kwan, LF
   2. Ramirez, 3B
   3. Benson, 1B
   4. Valera, RF
   5. Josh Naylor, DH
   6. Gimenez, 2B
   7. Rocchio, SS
   8. Bo Naylor, C
   9. Straw, CF

And... I still don't have a spot for Jhonkensy. Deal from the glut to shore up the uncertainty.

Like it .... I was just thinking 2023 is a transition year as Valera/Noel are probably not ready in April but by May/June for Valera (cold starter) and July/Aug for Noel. But, I would take Benson/Jones at first and move on from Miller (open up another 40 spot along with Clement and Reyes).

If you do the same for pitching

2023 Starters
1. Bieber
2. McK
3. Quant
4. Civale
5. Please no Plesac -- Pilk/Batten/Allen jr/Curry all will have 1/2 yr in AAA

2025
1. Espino
2. Williams
3. McK/Quant (sign one long-term)
4. Bibee
5. Burns/Allen Jr
Other Hankins, Cambell, Cantillo, Curry, Nikhazy

I don't have much faith that Bieber will resign for team friendly deal but possible

2024 Relievers (all have less than 2 year this year or so thus set for 2024/25/26/....)
1. Clase
2. Vargas
3. Stephan
4. Karinchak
5. Morris (sorry he is Morgan type)
6. Santos
7. Morgan (maybe Allen Jr.)
8. Failed starter in Battenfield/Curry/Gaddis (stuff can play up)

Where does Gose, Shaw and even Sandlin fill in long-term? Even Hentges... They got to put up or shut up. Miko may not even make it .... That is why I am not that concerned about rostering on Rule 5 as relievers are not in our system but we seem to have enough possibilities to fill in (esp if Vargas and Morris finish strong. And SC, mentioned Sharpe along with some others.

2023 is transition year where Reyes, Miller, Clement, Rosario, Sandlin, Gose, ... all may not be safe....

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Where does Gose, Shaw and even Sandlin fill in long-term?

Shaw retires. Gose fails out of baseball and is selling insurance. Sandlin is in the bullpen.

 

[kriegs]

Only you and "obscured by being brainless" would conclude this guy can't hit/mash.. or that the Guardians are not in need of catching. Cherry pick some more stats and massage them until they're peanut butter.. and you'll arrive at: ".. this guy can mash..." and O'Hoppe plus Naylor plus Lavastida plus ______________ (fill in name of ONE MORE catcher) is approaching a satisfactory number..

You don't want to see things any other way.. So be it..

I mean you could offer some stats and have a debate about it or just insult a poster who isn’t even me.

I’d be suprised if Bohm was even on the market or ever fetched what that calculator thinks he’s worth. He has a chance to be a great hitter thanks to the way he impacts the ball but he hits way too many grounders.

In his defense he’s making some progress this season but more times than not this profile fails so it’s not a bet I’d make. Seems like the Guardians are a team that values plate discipline above all else (sans Franmil for now) so I’d be surprised if they barked up this tree. That’s a huge weakness for Bohm.

 

[Gson]

Two things..

-Stats are everywhere.. Fangraphs, BBRef.. MLB.com..etc..etc.. if you want stats.. get em.
-I stopped posting "stats" as anyone can find whatever they want.. and present them in a manner that supports whatever narrative they want..

As far as availability of any player.. if the trade improves the team... both now and into the future.. everyone is available barring NTC's..

 

[Obscured By Clouds]

I mean you could offer some stats and have a debate about it or just insult a poster who isn’t even me.

I’d be suprised if Bohm was even on the market or ever fetched what that calculator thinks he’s worth. He has a chance to be a great hitter thanks to the way he impacts the ball but he hits way too many grounders.

In his defense he’s making some progress this season but more times than not this profile fails so it’s not a bet I’d make. Seems like the Guardians are a team that values plate discipline above all else (sans Franmil for now) so I’d be surprised if they barked up this tree. That’s a huge weakness for Bohm.

What's funny is I haven't engaged that guy in forever, good to know I am living rent free in his head just because I liked your post.

In the end, he is a tiny man living on a tiny island, jumping up and down screaming 'someone look at me!'

 

[Gson]

What's funny is I haven't engaged that guy in forever, good to know I am living rent free in his head just because I liked your post.

In the end, he is a tiny man living on a tiny island, jumping up and down screaming 'someone look at me!'

..

 

[sportscoach]

..

You do have a personality at times that isn't easy to love haha but we are used to it

 

[Obscured By Clouds]

You do have a personality at times that isn't easy to love haha but we are used to it

'at times' come on.

 

[sportscoach]

'at times' come on.

Yes at times, I mean I talk to him the most of anyone here though, so I have learned to deal with his little flaws. Then again I always try to see the best in people I interact with.