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If Jayson Tatum is coming back, I will help pack up Jarrett Allen's place. But Keldon Johnson? Why would you trade an allstar at a the hardest position to get an allstar for like the 18th best wing in the league?
 
Lee said:
Lamar has been seeing time in the rotation before Love the last couple weeks. Not sure if its because Love isnt 100% or his defense is that bad.

But Lamar could get time if someone gets in foul trouble unless Love jumps him in the rotation.
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Lamar sucks.
 
foucault87 said:
If Jayson Tatum is coming back, I will help pack up Jarrett Allen's place. But Keldon Johnson? Why would you trade an allstar at a the hardest position to get an allstar for like the 18th best wing in the league?
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Jarrett Allen is a center who can't shoot. The 18th best wing in the league is more valuable than JA. I'll give you this: JA is more valuable to our team today because of how badly we rely on him for defense and because of how thin our frontcourt is.

All-star status doesn't make you better than a guy who's never been an all-star. And JA had a lot of things go right for him last year (career highs for JA, injuries to other guys, all-star game in Cleveland, Cavs really exceeding expectations in first half of the year). He'll never be an all-star again.

Cavs have some work to do this offseason. Dean Wade as your only playable backup big is not enough. Wade has been injury prone to this point, and he's best suited at getting a big chunk of minutes at the 3 for this team. Was hoping we could have gotten JaVale McGee or someone serviceable at this year's deadline.

If at some point in the future the Cavs trade JA for a wing, they are going to be getting back a decent center in the deal. They're not dumb enough to leave us even thinner up front. If I were GM I'd base a lot of JA's future with this team on his performance this postseason (and future postseasons). His interest & energy waxes and wanes during the regular season. Sometimes he's just getting pushed around and sometimes he's everywhere. We know everybody loves him, so he's not going to be traded just to trade him. But if he's not playing like an all-star consistently, trading him for a proven player needs to be on the table.
 
ice cream man said:
Jarrett Allen is a center who can't shoot. The 18th best wing in the league is more valuable than JA. I'll give you this: JA is more valuable to our team today because of how badly we rely on him for defense and because of how thin our frontcourt is.

All-star status doesn't make you better than a guy who's never been an all-star. And JA had a lot of things go right for him last year (career highs for JA, injuries to other guys, all-star game in Cleveland, Cavs really exceeding expectations in first half of the year). He'll never be an all-star again.

Cavs have some work to do this offseason. Dean Wade as your only playable backup big is not enough. Wade has been injury prone to this point, and he's best suited at getting a big chunk of minutes at the 3 for this team. Was hoping we could have gotten JaVale McGee or someone serviceable at this year's deadline.

If at some point in the future the Cavs trade JA for a wing, they are going to be getting back a decent center in the deal. They're not dumb enough to leave us even thinner up front. If I were GM I'd base a lot of JA's future with this team on his performance this postseason (and future postseasons). His interest & energy waxes and wanes during the regular season. Sometimes he's just getting pushed around and sometimes he's everywhere. We know everybody loves him, so he's not going to be traded just to trade him. But if he's not playing like an all-star consistently, trading him for a proven player needs to be on the table.
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You are really underselling how good Jarrett Allen is. You are acting like he is some run of the mill starting center like he is a Plumlee or something. Allen is one of the 7 best centers in the league. As a rim protector, he is top 3. The drop off from the 15th to the 30th best center is not much. But from 7 to even 10 is enormous. There are a handful of wings in the entire league who have the game to game impact of Jarrett Allen and they are all either old and unacquirable (Bron, KD, Kawhi, PG) or just unacquirable (Tatum, Booker). And his contract is incredible. Allen is underpaid by quite a bit given how much value he provides. No, I am not trading an all-star caliber center on a great contract for an overpaid tier 2 wing like Brandon Ingram let alone a middling sub-allstar like Keldon Johnson. I cant believe this is even a serious discussion. This is as stupid as Futuredome wanting to trade Garland for every role player under the sun
 
ice cream man said:
Jarrett Allen is a center who can't shoot. The 18th best wing in the league is more valuable than JA. I'll give you this: JA is more valuable to our team today because of how badly we rely on him for defense and because of how thin our frontcourt is.

All-star status doesn't make you better than a guy who's never been an all-star. And JA had a lot of things go right for him last year (career highs for JA, injuries to other guys, all-star game in Cleveland, Cavs really exceeding expectations in first half of the year). He'll never be an all-star again.

Cavs have some work to do this offseason. Dean Wade as your only playable backup big is not enough. Wade has been injury prone to this point, and he's best suited at getting a big chunk of minutes at the 3 for this team. Was hoping we could have gotten JaVale McGee or someone serviceable at this year's deadline.

If at some point in the future the Cavs trade JA for a wing, they are going to be getting back a decent center in the deal. They're not dumb enough to leave us even thinner up front. If I were GM I'd base a lot of JA's future with this team on his performance this postseason (and future postseasons). His interest & energy waxes and wanes during the regular season. Sometimes he's just getting pushed around and sometimes he's everywhere. We know everybody loves him, so he's not going to be traded just to trade him. But if he's not playing like an all-star consistently, trading him for a proven player needs to be on the table.
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This is really bad. It shows a poor understanding of JA and the finer points of a modern center.

It doesn't matter if he's a center that can't currently shoot--which isn't true, he can shoot free throws--every team still needs a center. If you're competing in the modern NBA, the choices are either (1) a Jokic/Embiid type that can dominate on offense from any range or (2) a JA athletic type that can protect the rim on defense, switch 1-5, can finish on offense, and can't be hack-a-Shaq'd.

Tweener centers like like DeAndre Ayton or Rudy Gobert that can do abit of both but don't excel at either get abused in the post-season by players like Giannis or guards/wings. It's even worse when you put another tweener big next to them like KAT.

Being pushed around by true/bigger centers during the regular season is going to happen. That's the price you pay for having a center that can guard 1-5. His energy going up and down is also going to happen. That's the price you pay for asking a center to do so much on defense. It's a lot to ask from a big man, but the results speak for themselves: the #1 defense.

JA and Mobley are the blueprint for modern bigs and how two of them can exist in an NBA that is dominated by wings.
 
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Jscc said:
This is really bad. It shows a poor understanding of JA and the finer points of a modern center.

It doesn't matter if he's a center that can't currently shoot--which isn't true, he can shoot free throws--every team still needs a center. If you're competing in the modern NBA, the choices are either (1) a Jokic/Embiid type that can dominate on offense from any range or (2) a JA athletic type that can protect the rim on defense, switch 1-5, can finish on offense, and can't be hack-a-Shaq'd.

Tweener centers like like DeAndre Ayton or Rudy Gobert that can do abit of both but don't excel at either get abused in the post-season by players like Giannis or guards/wings. It's even worse when you put another tweener big next to them like KAT.

Being pushed around by true/bigger centers during the regular season is going to happen. That's the price you pay for having a center that can guard 1-5. His energy going up and down is also going to happen. That's the price you pay for asking a center to do so much on defense. It's a lot to ask from a big man, but the results speak for themselves: the #1 defense.

JA and Mobley are the blueprint for modern bigs and how two of them can exist in an NBA that is dominated by wings.
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A great summary of what makes Allen and Mobley so unique. This is why you also see guys like Timelord and Nic Claxton being so impactful on their teams. Switchability is the name of the game nowadays and having not one but two bigs that can do that is an incredible boon. It also lets you be extremely diverse in the looks you show the defense as we can play drop, at the level of the screen, hard switch, hedge etc. More than you can do with slow footed rim protectors who can only drop (Brook, Gobert) or smaller "centers" who offer much less resistance at the rim (the PJ Tucker at 5 types)
 
How the Cavs plan to handle the SF safari is really dependent on how they plan to handle LeVert and Wade..

Either way, the Cavs don't need someone who can start games as much as they need someone who can finish games with the core four... We've seen JBB go with the hot hand or search for the player playing best out of Wade, Okoro, LeVert and even Stevens... Seems like he tends to favor the guy who is shooting the ball best and can guard the opposing team's best player down the stretch..

It would be ideal if they can find that guy who can hit a high volume of 3s at a high clip but also effectively guard the opposing team's best player up or down the lineup.. Wade theoretically has the skillset but can't stay healthy... Okoro is the best defender but also the worst shooter... LeVert is a little bit of both but can also be a little bit of nothing...

Going into next offseason, the core four + Wade and Rubio have guaranteed deals... Stevens and Cedi had deals the Cavs can get out of but good chance they are brought back for depth given their value outweighs their $$$... Quickly breaking down the minute allocation as follows: Allen (32), Mitchell (35), Garland (35), Mobley (34), Rubio (20), Okoro (21), Wade (21) = 198.. There are 240 minutes to go around total, with 42 minutes left after the top-7... So with that in mind, the Cavs have two major options--

1). Keep LeVert, sign lesser FA option. If the Cavs keep LeVert (30MPG this year), the likelihood is the Cavs wouldn't be able to offer more than 15-20 minutes a game, i.e. a Cedi like role... But bringing LeVert backs, means you have to find a good shooter and they might miss out on some top tier FAs given he would be not the first or second guy off the bench..

2). Let LeVert leave (walk or S&T). This options opens up a lot of minutes and possibilities for who they could bring in... With around 42 minutes available, you could offer a top tier role and a full non-taxpayer MLE to any forward on the market... It could be an attractive option for some given the minutes, open looks and large minutes... This also likely means Cedi/Stevens could play a role as your #9 and #10 guy who plays 15 or so minutes a night..

Wade is also a swing player in what they acquire as the question is do they see him more as a 3 who can play 4 or a 4 who can play 3... That answer may depend on who they can acquire to fill the forward role..

Grant Williams really would be would be as close to an ideal fit as possible given his shot efficiency, defensive versatility and age but it's hard to see the Cavs being able to snag him away from Boston outside a S&T.. Cam Johnson also falls in that category as well and would be 1A to Williams being 1B..

If the Cavs keep LeVert, you're likely looking at Yuta Watanabe, Max Strus, Otto Porter Jr,

If the Cavs lose LeVert, Harrison Barnes and Bogdan Bogdanovic (if he opts out) are more of what they could look at..

Surveying the free agent market, it wouldn't surprise me to see them bring back LeVert and use Cedi + any other assets to make another run at Royce O'Neale.. Knowing Williams and Johnson are not exactly obtainable, if the Cavs could bring back LeVert (say at 2-3 years, $17AAV) + grab O'Neale, that really would be a nice offseason... The core four + Wade, Okoro, Rubio, LeVert, and O'Neale is a solid 9 man rotation... Perhaps then split your MLE between a shooter and backup center and that sounds like a nice offseason..
 
Glad some of you are not GM's.
The weak spot is as Smooth says and some of have said for years.It's SF. NOT ONE player on the Cavs who fills in at that spot plays it with any consistancy at all.
Altman has got to get a SF who can shoot , is athletic and can play some D.
 
Smooth said:
How the Cavs plan to handle the SF safari is really dependent on how they plan to handle LeVert and Wade..

Either way, the Cavs don't need someone who can start games as much as they need someone who can finish games with the core four... We've seen JBB go with the hot hand or search for the player playing best out of Wade, Okoro, LeVert and even Stevens... Seems like he tends to favor the guy who is shooting the ball best and can guard the opposing team's best player down the stretch..

It would be ideal if they can find that guy who can hit a high volume of 3s at a high clip but also effectively guard the opposing team's best player up or down the lineup.. Wade theoretically has the skillset but can't stay healthy... Okoro is the best defender but also the worst shooter... LeVert is a little bit of both but can also be a little bit of nothing...

Going into next offseason, the core four + Wade and Rubio have guaranteed deals... Stevens and Cedi had deals the Cavs can get out of but good chance they are brought back for depth given their value outweighs their $$$... Quickly breaking down the minute allocation as follows: Allen (32), Mitchell (35), Garland (35), Mobley (34), Rubio (20), Okoro (21), Wade (21) = 198.. There are 240 minutes to go around total, with 42 minutes left after the top-7... So with that in mind, the Cavs have two major options--

1). Keep LeVert, sign lesser FA option. If the Cavs keep LeVert (30MPG this year), the likelihood is the Cavs wouldn't be able to offer more than 15-20 minutes a game, i.e. a Cedi like role... But bringing LeVert backs, means you have to find a good shooter and they might miss out on some top tier FAs given he would be not the first or second guy off the bench..

2). Let LeVert leave (walk or S&T). This options opens up a lot of minutes and possibilities for who they could bring in... With around 42 minutes available, you could offer a top tier role and a full non-taxpayer MLE to any forward on the market... It could be an attractive option for some given the minutes, open looks and large minutes... This also likely means Cedi/Stevens could play a role as your #9 and #10 guy who plays 15 or so minutes a night..

Wade is also a swing player in what they acquire as the question is do they see him more as a 3 who can play 4 or a 4 who can play 3... That answer may depend on who they can acquire to fill the forward role..

Grant Williams really would be would be as close to an ideal fit as possible given his shot efficiency, defensive versatility and age but it's hard to see the Cavs being able to snag him away from Boston outside a S&T.. Cam Johnson also falls in that category as well and would be 1A to Williams being 1B..

If the Cavs keep LeVert, you're likely looking at Yuta Watanabe, Max Strus, Otto Porter Jr,

If the Cavs lose LeVert, Harrison Barnes and Bogdan Bogdanovic (if he opts out) are more of what they could look at..

Surveying the free agent market, it wouldn't surprise me to see them bring back LeVert and use Cedi + any other assets to make another run at Royce O'Neale.. Knowing Williams and Johnson are not exactly obtainable, if the Cavs could bring back LeVert (say at 2-3 years, $17AAV) + grab O'Neale, that really would be a nice offseason... The core four + Wade, Okoro, Rubio, LeVert, and O'Neale is a solid 9 man rotation... Perhaps then split your MLE between a shooter and backup center and that sounds like a nice offseason..
Click to expand...

This is where im at as well. For all his warts - and im not particulalry a fan - having LeVert back would offer a nice luxury for Rubio maintenance (or Garland/Mitchell) and we know injuries always happen. Plus if we manage to ink him to a reasonable 2/3 year contract that would be a nice and needed asset going forward.

But if we keep him its imperative we find one legitimate 3&D to start and likely also one for the bench to upgrade over Cedi. And the way i see that happening is via trading Okoro to be honest. I dont think we can afford to have both LeVert and Okoro, at least its not ideal.

Royce O'neal would be picture perfect for his defensive versatility as well. Someone like Watanabe for the bench. If we can trade for O'neal without Ice that would be fantastic, but Im tempted to pull a 1 for 1 to be honest. Especially with O'neals capable PoA defense and likely having Traverse over too.

Allen/Backup 5/Diakite
Mobely/Wade/Stevens/iMobley
O'neal/Watanabe/Cedi
Mitchell/LeVert/Traverse
Garland/Rubio/Neto

Thats a really well balanced team all of a sudden. With multiple guys to throw at big wings on defense.

Would suck to lose Ice, but i think the logical conclusion this summer will be that his value offers us the best chance at a proper upgrade.
 
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