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Super Bowl LVI - Ohio vs Odell

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DirtyDan said:
Calling Mahomes and Allen not elite when they both are in the top 10/5 of their profession. Stafford is probably in that top 10/15, Burrow not that far beyond. Jimmy G is hurt and bad, but still finds a way to make timely plays in key moments when Baker simply has not and it's debatable if he even can.

Weapons matter, but the QB doing an adequate enough job is way more important. Goes to show you need an absolute ALLSTAR cast to drag a bad QB through the playoffs. Put the Baker koolaid down for a minute, JFC.
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Nobody said they weren't elite. You should re-read what I said originally.
 
Steve_424 said:
Meaning not every team still alive has one...
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So is Garoppolo the only one in your eyes not elite ?

If that’s the worst QB still left I’d still take my chances…
 
Steve_424 said:
Let me simplify:

Every team that is still alive has a WR1.

Not every team that is still alive has an elite QB.

Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Stafford are elite. Garoppolo is not.
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Okay but the Browns going into the season had elite weapons…

You see how the Rams and their QB can use one of the same substantial weapons the Browns had and get production both throughout the game and in scoring opportunities…

Who’s to say someone like DPJ could not be a Diggs type of guy with a much more skilled QB getting him the ball but he’s being compromised by the inaccuracy of the QB and his inability avoid pressure in the pocket and step up and make a play ???

I mean we have evidence with OBJ that he can put points on the board if the QB gives him an opportunity…
 
Steve_424 said:
Let me simplify:

Every team that is still alive has a WR1.

Not every team that is still alive has an elite QB.

Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Stafford are elite. Garoppolo is not.
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Niners spent a second rounder and then a first rounder the next year to solidify their starting receivers. That's after Kittle emerged as the best tight end in football. There's a lesson in there for the Browns to follow.
 
DirtyDan said:
I think @Randolphkeys teaches English ...

I don't think that sentence is worded in the way you intended. I understand your argument now, so thank you for that.
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I'm exhausted after a long weekend and maybe didn't use the best wording, but I also would've assumed people here would know I wasn't arguing something as idiotic as "there are no elite QBs".

Glad we cleared it up though.
 
PIP said:
Okay but the Browns going into the season had elite weapons…

You see how the Rams and their QB can use one of the same substantial weapons the Browns had and get production both throughout the game and in scoring opportunities…

Who’s to say someone like DPJ could not be a Diggs type of guy with a much more skilled QB getting him the ball but he’s being compromised by the inaccuracy of the QB and his inability avoid pressure in the pocket and step up and make a play ???

I mean we have evidence with OBJ that he can put points on the board if the QB gives him an opportunity…
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One of the reasons OBJ is thriving is because they're using him as a #2 or sometimes even a #3 option. We expected him to be a #1 and he's just not that anymore. Doesn't mean he's not a good player, he is - but he's not what he was in his early years in NY.

Truthfully, I can't remember the last time the Browns had a Top 10 WR. I know there's nobody on the roster that has talent at the level of Kupp, Samuel, Chase, Diggs, or Hill.

Randolphkeys said:
Niners spent a second rounder and then a first rounder the next year to solidify their starting receivers. That's after Kittle emerged as the best tight end in football. There's a lesson in there for the Browns to follow.
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Absolutely....they need an infusion of pass catching talent no matter what we do at QB.
 
Steve_424 said:
One of the reasons OBJ is thriving is because they're using him as a #2 or sometimes even a #3 option. We expected him to be a #1 and he's just not that anymore. Doesn't mean he's not a good player, he is - but he's not what he was in his early years in NY.

Truthfully, I can't remember the last time the Browns had a Top 10 WR. I know there's nobody on the roster that has talent at the level of Kupp, Samuel, Chase, Diggs, or Hill.



Absolutely....they need an infusion of pass catching talent no matter what we do at QB.
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They also use him creatively. There’s no evidence to support the Browns can effectively utilize even a good WR much less an elite one.

I’m not confident Baker can get more or equal out of Samuels…Or if can even be schemed properly…

Either way— the Browns have an issue with the QB or the coach… no matter how you slice it’s not good
 
PIP said:
They also use him creatively. There’s no evidence to support the Browns can effectively utilize even a good WR much less an elite one.

I’m not confident Baker can get more or equal out of Samuels…Or if can even be schemed properly…

Either way— the Browns have an issue with the QB or the coach… no matter how you slice it’s not good
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I certainly agree that Baker needs to play better and I questioned playcalling a lot in 2021.

But when's the last time we had anyone in the same league as Deebo/Hill/Kupp/Diggs/Chase?
 
Steve_424 said:
I certainly agree that Baker needs to play better and I questioned playcalling a lot in 2021.

But when's the last time we had anyone in the same league as Deebo/Hill/Kupp/Diggs/Chase?
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I think if the Browns had any of those guys their careers take a hit
 
PIP said:
Okay but the Browns going into the season had elite weapons…

You see how the Rams and their QB can use one of the same substantial weapons the Browns had and get production both throughout the game and in scoring opportunities…

Who’s to say someone like DPJ could not be a Diggs type of guy with a much more skilled QB getting him the ball but he’s being compromised by the inaccuracy of the QB and his inability avoid pressure in the pocket and step up and make a play ???

I mean we have evidence with OBJ that he can put points on the board if the QB gives him an opportunity…
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Imo the big difference is in Cleveland OBJ was being asked to be WR1 whereas in LA he is a WR3. Not saying OBJ is not good but he doesn't strike me as a WR1 like we needed him to be. OBJ only averaged 39 yards a game in LA after the trade but he did catch 5 TDs (4 of the 5 were under 10 yard TDs).
IMO OBJ is nowhere near elite any longer, Jarvis is a slow possession receiver, and DPJ is a developing WR that may be a WR2 or WR3.
The Browns also had issues with injuries along the OL as well. Wills and Conklin even when playing were fighting injuries and allowing pressure pretty quickly.
When our OL is healthy it is elite. We did not have that this year at all.
Not saying Baker played well at all but he was injured and what stuck out to me was how Baker seemed to revert back to how he played in 2019 with our bad OL situation. He was antsy in the pocket and his footwork was awful leading to accuracy issues. Last year the OL was healthy and shored up and after a rough start to the season he finished the 2nd half looking like a franchise QB imo.
The shoulder was clearly an issue as well and he should have been shut down a week or two after it happened.
Not saying Baker will prove he is a franchise QB next season but he has played well when both he and the OL is healthy. Hopefully he plays well next season and we don't have to start a new search for a QB but I think we all agree next year will be his last chance unless we trade him this offseason.
 
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