The new Beebs

[thestatman]

Continue to tell me you don't know how MLB financials work without outright telling me you don't know how they work.

Edit: Like I am curious. Are there people here who think it is legal to spend personal money on player contracts in professional sports?

Dolan is worth 5.5 billion. The question is ...do you want to win a title or do you want to stretch your generational wealth? Cohen wants to win a title. Cleveland ownership is the third richest in all of baseball. Plenty of sports owners have traded a certain profit margin to win a championship.

 

[Gson]

The Dolans...

Charles <=== billions in net worth
Paul <=== not so much

 

[avs2000]

Continue to tell me you don't know how MLB financials work without outright telling me you don't know how they work.

Edit: Like I am curious. Are there people here who think it is legal to spend personal money on player contracts in professional sports?

Yes most people think Dolan is cheap for not opening up his personal checkbook to pay a player. Doesn’t work that way. They don’t understand

 

[BimboColesHair]

Dolan is worth 5.5 billion. The question is ...do you want to win a title or do you want to stretch your generational wealth? Cohen wants to win a title. Cleveland ownership is the third richest in all of baseball. Plenty of sports owners have traded a certain profit margin to win a championship.

The Dolan family is worth 5.5 billion. Not Paul Dolan.

It’s in a trust.

Do you know how a trust works?

And again, tell me you don’t know how baseball financials work without telling me you don’t know.

All of these teams are spending on the same profit margin. Just certain teams make more profit.

But continue to whine. Cleveland baseball doesn’t have a rival quite like their own fans.

 

[MadThinker88]

Let's also remember that the Dolan group that owns the NY Knicks is a different part of the family from Larry & Paul.
IIRC they are cousins....

All that said, can this thread return to discussing the rebound/ return of the very good pitcher that is Shane Bieber? Its been fun watching his work on the mound so far this season.

 

[thestatman]

The Dolan family is worth 5.5 billion. Not Paul Dolan.

It’s in a trust.

Do you know how a trust works?

And again, tell me you don’t know how baseball financials work without telling me you don’t know.

All of these teams are spending on the same profit margin. Just certain teams make more profit.

But continue to whine. Cleveland baseball doesn’t have a rival quite like their own fans.

I'm a business major so yes I know how trusts works. And no, not all teams work within a certain profit margin. Sorry, you are wrong. My point stands. Some owners of sports teams, are willing to take a loss to win a title. The Dolan trust is co-owned by Larry and Paul Dolan,,,that's correct which represents the third wealthiest ownership in baseball.

Do you honestly think the KC Royals turned the same profit margin in 2014 and 2015? Ummm no they didn't. That's just one example of ownership wanting to win a title for their city over making a specific profit.

 

[BimboColesHair]

You're right.

I have no idea what I'm talking about.

 

[AZ_]

You're right.

I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Business majors know taking a profit loss guarantees championships.

He boy mathed you.

 

[AZ_]

Steve Cohen — the gold standard


Guy just wants to win.

 

[Kevalier]

After seeing the Guardians trade Sabathia with three months left on his contract for a minor league outfielder named Michael Brantley, I'm sold. After seeing them trade the last year of Kluber's contract (in which he pitched one inning) for Clase, I'm sold. After seeing them trade the last 1.5 years of Clevinger's contract (he was hurt the following year) for Josh Naylor, Arias, Hedges, Quantrill, and Cantillo, I'm sold. There are more examples.

We HAVE to trade Bieber. The way he's pitching there is NO chance we can afford to extend him. There never was. There's not enough "creativity" to make it happen.

In retrospect would you rather have the 17 starts Sabathia made for the Brewers after the trade (he signed with the Yankees after the season) or the ten years of Michael Brantley?

I would trade Bieber's last 17 starts of this season for ten years of the next Michael Brantley. But I would prefer pitching, similar to the Jake Westbrook for Corey Kluber trade.

No, we certainly don't have to trade Bieber. If this club is in first place in the division come late July and there isn't a trade offer for Bieber that somehow makes the 2024 team better, then the responsible thing to do would be to hang onto him and take the compensatory draft pick after the season. As currently constructed, the Guards need this Shane Bieber to make a run in October if we get there.

 

[BimboColesHair]

No, we certainly don't have to trade Bieber. If this club is in first place in the division come late July and there isn't a trade offer for Bieber that somehow makes the 2024 team better, then the responsible thing to do would be to hang onto him and take the compensatory draft pick after the season. As currently constructed, the Guards need this Shane Bieber to make a run in October if we get there.

This.

All depends on where the team is at and heading towards at the deadline.

But in no situation will Shane be walking for nothing.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

This.

All depends on where the team is at and heading towards at the deadline.

But in no situation will Shane be walking for nothing.

How would you rate the value of the compensatory draft pick we would receive against the value of prospects Bieber could be traded for if he continues to pitch at this level? Keep in mind we got Manzardo for Aaron Civale, Clase for Corey Kluber, and Brantley for CC Sabathia.

Where would the compensatory pick be located? At the end of the first round? The second? I really don't know.

I would hate to pass up a guy that would be the next Michael Brantley or Emmanuel Clase in exchange for the last half of Bieber's 2024 season and a draft pick. A big part of that is I have not been impressed with their drafting, although it has been better the last few years.

The X factor is that we have not won a WS since 1948 and if that looks like it could be a possibility, which I doubt given how the Yankees, Dodgers, and Braves have stacked up the superstar talent, I suppose we couldn't trade our ace regardless of how much it would improve the team from 2025 to 2030.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Yes most people think Dolan is cheap for not opening up his personal checkbook to pay a player. Doesn’t work that way. They don’t understand

Right, but can't the Guardians go "into the red" if that's what ownership is willing to do? For example, they might have retained Lindor if they offered him more than the Mets, but it would mean they would operate at a loss rather than a profit for the next ten years. So they would have to borrow money to meet their payroll. That debt on the books would reduce the value of the franchise since it's now a money-losing operation rather than showing a small profit.

So when the owner sells the team he'll get less. Instead of walking away with a one billion dollar gain he might get only $950 million or so. In that scenario he would be indirectly putting his personal money into the team.

The Dolans have never wanted to operate in the red in order to win more games. You can't blame them. It's not their responsibility to spend their personal money to win more games. That would be a donation to the baseball fans of Cleveland. If it were me, I might just be willing to walk away with $900 million instead of a billion if it meant the first World Series win in 75 years. But that's just me. I like parades.

 

[BimboColesHair]

Right, but can't the Guardians go "into the red" if that's what ownership is willing to do? For example, they might have retained Lindor if they offered him more than the Mets, but it would mean they would operate at a loss rather than a profit for the next ten years. So they would have to borrow money to meet their payroll. That debt on the books would reduce the value of the franchise since it's now a money-losing operation rather than showing a small profit.

So when the owner sells the team he'll get less. Instead of walking away with a one billion dollar gain he might get only $950 million or so. In that scenario he would be indirectly putting his personal money into the team.

The Dolans have never wanted to operate in the red in order to win more games. You can't blame them. It's not their responsibility to spend their personal money to win more games. That would be a donation to the baseball fans of Cleveland. If it were me, I might just we willing to walk away with $900 million instead of a billion if it meant the first World Series win in 75 years. But that's just me.

No one ever goes into the red in professional sports or operates at a loss. That’s a ridiculous thing to be disappointed about Wham.

Large markets and the way teams earn and share money in baseball have you all tricked into thinking there are “generous owners who want to win and just spend more out of the goodness of their hearts and a desire to win!!” instead of the reality that they make more and can spend more while still making the same profit margin by % as your small team with a “cheap owner who shouldn’t own a team if he won’t spend and doesn’t want to win, just make money”.

And the players publicly pull the wool over your eyes every CBA negotiation and agents do the same surely out of the goodness of their hearts for the fan experience and not to get paid more.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Yes most people think Dolan is cheap for not opening up his personal checkbook to pay a player. Doesn’t work that way. They don’t understand

It doesn't work that way directly, but indirectly, it happens all the time. Wealthy owners in professional sports put their personal wealth into the franchise to increase wins. But that doesn't apply to all owners/franchises, and some of them expect their team to generate positive income rather than negative.