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Today’s NBA is barely recognizable.

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The crotchety old man smell seeping from this thread is creeping out to other areas of the board...

Most these dudes from the 80's and 90's would get run off the court so fast in today's game. They'd be busy trying to hack the shit out of someone because they're too slow to move their feet and stay in front of someone. Face it, they weren't really better defenders, they were just allowed to assault people more frequently and get away with it. That's not basketball.
 
I remember 20 years ago when people said the Spurs were unwatchable and boring..... I’d basically give anything to watch a Spurs-like game in today’s NBA...
Let me guess, 20 years ago when people thought the Spurs were unwatchable and boring, all you could talk about was how the 80's Celtics and Lakers were what real basketball was all about.
 
Completely agree about the nature of the game.

I have NO idea what the NBA is thinking with this product, or how they can't see that it's crashing their ratings. But apparently, the supposed "best gm in sports" doesn't see it.

The amount of free throws guys are getting by just kicking their legs out on jumpers is disgusting. Officials continue to reward players over and over and over and it makes the game fucking ugly. Just dudes hoisting shitty ass jumpers from anywhere not wit hte goal of making it, but just drawing a foul.
 
Let me guess, 20 years ago when people thought the Spurs were unwatchable and boring, all you could talk about was how the 80's Celtics and Lakers were what real basketball was all about.

I get your point, but Trae Young is shooting more FTs per game than fucking Shaq.

Are we REALLY arguing its harder to guard Trae Young than SHAQ????

Or have the players figured out how to fool the officials 9 out of 10 times and they just flail around anytime anyone breathes on them.
 
Yeah it is nostalgic! Because the vast majority of players in today’s games lack basic fundamental defensive skills! So many of today’s players get beat back door cuts on a regular basis. Why? Because they lack the fundamental of positioning their body so they can see their man and the ball. Harden gets beat on back door cuts 5-6 times a game. So does Cryie. Nobody knows how to cut off a player’s strong hand. Nobody has realized yet that no matter where Harden goes on the court he is always coming back left! Yet nobody forces him right. And the players that DO play defense are handcuffed by the league because the league wants to see high scoring games! I will never forget a couple of years ago when the Rockets were playing the Dubs! Patrick Beverly got all up in Durant’s jersey in a playoff game, frustrated the hell out of Durant who only scored 11 points. The very next game it was like Silver called the refs and said “we can’t have our stars being shown up” and what happens? Beverly gets hits with three quick foul calls in the first quarter essentially taking him out of the game defensively. And the three point shot has gotten out of control as well! Two years I watch the Jazz and Nuggets play a game. With 1:30 left in the game the Jazz had the ball down one point 97-96. In that last 1:30 the Jazz (who never loss possession of the ball) took FOUR 3 point shots. Never once attempted to attack the rim or the paint to draw a foul. Their last play (still only down one point) with five seconds remaining was an out bounds play specially designed for Mitchell to take a corner three! RIDICULOUS! Yessssssss to me the game is boring and predictable.
I'm gonna stop you at the back door part, because there's too much to address here lol

Of course it's easier to get beat on a back door cut when the guy cutting can also shoot a 26 foot jumper or you might have to close out on another shooter. The nature of the game is different. Go and watch the offensive prowess of guys in the 90s. Look at the spots on the court people shot from. The speed, the pace. It's much harder to play defense now. We gotta just acknowledge that.

Imagine prime Lebron is previous eras where you either had to commit to fully double teaming him or give single coverage. You weren't able to hedge your bets and play zone, or have a defender half way between Lebron and their defensive assignment. He would pick that league apart, too.

For those who remember the rule changes clearly - first they instituted zone and it became harder for players to score. They complained about it. So then they got rid of the handcheck in hopes of making it a little easier.

The 3-point era is partially a reaction to 10-15 years of teams being able to play zone D. Sooner or later, the players reacted to zone/no more illegal defense. Combine that with the obvious mathematical advantages of shooting a shot wroth 50% more points but than you make only 25% less of the time.

In his sixth year Allen Iverson played 43.7 minutes per game. Per game! Other stars logged high minutes, too, just less extreme. I have a hard time believe that even with better nutrition and medical care, guys nowadays could play that many minutes. It's circumstantial evidence - but I think that's due to the rigors of today's game. Like I said before, it's also why short players are a thing of the past. I don't know if we'll see another 5'8"-5'9" IT, let alone a 5'4" to 5'5" player.

Ben Simmons is great at everything but shooting, and he's a 6'10" PG. A 6'10 PG with great vision, good handle. Strong. Great D. He would dominate the 90s, but today it's a huge hole in his game. A 6'10" PG still needs to shoot.

Tell me again that it's not harder to play NBA basketball nowadays, please.
 
Just to be clear about the numbers.

In 2001-02, the year that AI played 43.7 mintues per game, there were 9 guys who averaged over 40 minutes. https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2002_per_game.html#per_game_stats::mp_per_g

In 2018-19 (picked it because it was the last full, normal season before the bubble, this year's crazy schedule, etc) Bradley Beal lead the league in minutes at under 36.9. https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2019_per_game.html#per_game_stats::mp_per_g

Beal, the league minutes leader in 18-19, would have been 40th in the league in 01-02. Who was 40th in the league in minutes in 18-19? Our friend Cedi Osman at 32.2 mpg. (Well, Cedi was 41st but I wanted to make a Cavs connection).

Pace, not just skill and shooting ability, may also play a role here. But even if it is pace - it still means it's hard to play in today's NBA. Things haven't gotten easier.

From an energy standpoint, can you think of a more exhausting NBA team to defend than the KD Warriors - the quintessential modern team? I can't.
 
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The crotchety old man smell seeping from this thread is creeping out to other areas of the board...

Most these dudes from the 80's and 90's would get run off the court so fast in today's game. They'd be busy trying to hack the shit out of someone because they're too slow to move their feet and stay in front of someone. Face it, they weren't really better defenders, they were just allowed to assault people more frequently and get away with it. That's not basketball.
Kevin Love, if his body wasn't so frail in terms of injuries, could have been a plus defender in the early 90s lol

The standard is so much higher now.

Also, people overblow how much contact and fouls were allowed back then. More than now, sure. But you weren't hit hard every time you entered the paint. People remember a few hard fouls and then figure they all were like that. Guys were still going to the line all the time because they got barely tapped on the elbow. Especially stars.
 
The crotchety old man smell seeping from this thread is creeping out to other areas of the board...

Most these dudes from the 80's and 90's would get run off the court so fast in today's game. They'd be busy trying to hack the shit out of someone because they're too slow to move their feet and stay in front of someone. Face it, they weren't really better defenders, they were just allowed to assault people more frequently and get away with it. That's not basketball.
It’s clear you’ve never had the chance to see players like Joe Dumars, Michael Cooper, Ronnie Lee, Bobby Jones and Rodman play defense! They didn’t mug anybody! The bodied them up, got up in their face and actually tried to defend people! People may not like him but Draymond plays solid defense. As does Patrick Beverly. As much as I dislike him so does Klay Thompson. But the majority of today’s players have no basic defensive knowledge. And you talk about the 80s and 90s players if the but vast majority of today’s players would be on the bench with 3-4 fouls in the first quarter trying guard the likes of Shaq, Dantley, Worthy, Kareem, MJ Tiny Archibald or even World B.
 
It’s clear you’ve never had the chance to see players like Joe Dumars, Michael Cooper, Ronnie Lee, Bobby Jones and Rodman play defense! They didn’t mug anybody! The bodied them up, got up in their face and actually tried to defend people! People may not like him but Draymond plays solid defense. As does Patrick Beverly. As much as I dislike him so does Klay Thompson. But the majority of today’s players have no basic defensive knowledge. And you talk about the 80s and 90s players if the but vast majority of today’s players would be on the bench with 3-4 fouls in the first quarter trying guard the likes of Shaq, Dantley, Worthy, Kareem, MJ Tiny Archibald or even World B.

No, they wouldn’t. Because if as you and others have claimed, they didn’t call fouls back in the day. Why would guys get all these extra fouls if they were able to play by the old rules everyone says existed? You know, the one’s that you and others say allowed the game to be more physical?
 
No, they wouldn’t. Because if as you and others have claimed, they didn’t call fouls back in the day. Why would guys get all these extra fouls if they were able to play by the old rules everyone says existed? You know, the one’s that you and others say allowed the game to be more physical?

The players could play. The game is soft though.

They'd adjust.
 
While I agree that the rule changes and the gameplay are hurting the league, I think the bigger problem is with the overall structure of the league.

If your franchise isn't in California, Texas, or Florida you are basically fucked. Beyond that you are looking at only 1 or maybe 2 other franchises that ever have any prayer of competing for a title in the foreseeable future. The rest of the teams simply don't matter. The idea of the NBA expanding makes absolutely no sense in this climate.

Players have way too much power. The way Harden just forced his way onto the Nets, with 3 years left on his deal, is absolutely disgusting.

I feel like I've been beating a dead horse about this on this site for years now. But the ratings continue to decline and it will only get worse, barring significant changes to how this league functions. Especially once LeBron retires, the NBA could be in serious trouble.

This dumb "arms race" era has become so draining. As Cavs fans, the best we can ever hope for is a watchable product. Which, we are fortunate to have now on most nights.

But the NBA as a league sucks right now.
 
I agree with the problems with the league and parity and everything. And how Lebron-centric things are.

I don't know if the players forcing their way to other markets is hurting ratings in the immediate future - in fact Harden to the Nets probably has helped ratings in the near-term - but long term it will make people in small markets feel like they have no chance (no one has ever forced a move to a small market lol)... which will have an impact.

But you folks saying the game is soft and the players back then were better need some data. The old crotchety guys never have data they just basically say "it's not how it used to be. Did you every see Rodman and Malone before? How about Isaiah Thomas?"
 
I have no doubt the game is softer now, we're in the culture of player safety and concussion protocols.
Touch anyone on the head you get targeting calls, Flagerant 2, tossed out of the games.
Last years playoffs were hard to watch. No one was allowed to put a body on Lebon or AD.
League needs the biggest stars on the highest stage to get the best ratings. Bet it comes down to Nets / Lakers finals.
 
I agree with the problems with the league and parity and everything. And how Lebron-centric things are.

I don't know if the players forcing their way to other markets is hurting ratings in the immediate future - in fact Harden to the Nets probably has helped ratings in the near-term - but long term it will make people in small markets feel like they have no chance (no one has ever forced a move to a small market lol)... which will have an impact.

But you folks saying the game is soft and the players back then were better need some data. The old crotchety guys never have data they just basically say "it's not how it used to be. Did you every see Rodman and Malone before? How about Isaiah Thomas
 

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