Week 8 vs Raiders

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I'mWithDan

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Coverage was never, at any point, the problem. They were destroyed in run defense.

Frankly, this hipster hindsight blaming needs to reflect what actually happened.

People should watch our linebackers during those drives. If they weren’t filling the wrong hole, they were getting driven 8 yards downfield. It was truly a clinic in how to literally do nothing for every key drive LV had.

There is no way to scheme around an important position group (against the run) being this horrendous.
 

Chris

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I think it will be incredibly disappointing if we don’t make the playoffs given the remaining schedule, COVID season or not. Nothing will be better for a young team to build on for 2021 than a playoff appearance after how close you were in ‘18 and the turmoil of ‘19.

We play the Texans, Jags, Giants, and Jets, that should be 9 wins there. And I’d really like this team to show they can play against legit talent in the Ravens, Steelers, and Titans. Time will tell but You have to take advantage of a soft schedule.

Chalking up automatic wins is ridiculous at this point IMO. Except maybe the Jets
 

daddywags

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Maybe just me but I hope they don't give up prime draft capital for a short term fix to try to make the playoffs this season. We ain't going far if we do and I really think we have a chance to build something the right way that lasts for a change.
 

Randolphkeys

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Coverage has been a problem all year. And they destroyed our run defense because it took the entire game before we started stacking the box. Even the announcers were like, "I'd put more men in the box instead of letting them just slap us around all game".

I'm not saying we should be a top 10 defense here - but I think you're overly defensive of the scheme/play-calling if you want to completely absolve Woods of blame. He has been pretty bad all year and was pretty bad today.

Derek Carr was 15-24 for 112 yards, took two sacks holding the ball too long before Myles was put on the shelf, changing the dynamic of the pass rush completely. Ronnie Harrison also dropped an easy interception that could have gone all the way back... possibly the most forgotten drop in a day of constant Browns drops.

Woods leans toward conservative. He doesn't mind surrendering short passes as long as the zone prevents long breakaway gains.

The key is the line controlling the line of scrimmage and linebackers reading the gaps well.

When the PFF grades come out, I expect the defensive tackles and linebackers to get completely roasted. They deserve the harsh criticism this week.

I'd welcome anyone to suggest otherwise when the game was so clearly dominated through long chunk runs straight through the middle of the defense.
 

Rich

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That was one of the more disappointing defensive performances I've seen.

Normally when a team runs for 200 yards it's because they had a couple of long runs.

Rarely is it because literally every single play that they hand the ball off they get 5 yards. Every time. And just ram it down your throat for like 3 or 4 10+ play drives.

They ran 24 more plays than the Browns. To know that they were gonna run the ball, essentially from the first snap, and never ever be able to stop them....man. The front 7 should be embarrassed.
 
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Vee-Rex

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Derek Carr was 15-24 for 112 yards, took two sacks holding the ball too long before Myles was put on the shelf, changing the dynamic of the pass rush completely. Ronnie Harrison also dropped an easy interception that could have gone all the way back... possibly the most forgotten drop in a day of constant Browns drops.

Don't forget the perfectly thrown pass to Henry Ruggs in the endzone who didn't get both feet in. Also, he threw a TD to Hunter Renfrow that you left out. Not to mention Carr had 6 rushes for 41 yards. He wasn't exactly held in check by Woods's play-calling here.

Woods leans toward conservative. He doesn't mind surrendering short passes as long as the zone prevents long breakaway gains.

Right - and my point is that there is such a thing as being TOO conservative at times. We've played 8 games now and the only game our defense had actually gotten consistent stops was the Colts game. Lamar, Burrow x2, Haskins, Dak, and Ben have shredded it pretty much at will. And I'd bet Carr would have also if not for the weather.

It has generated turnovers, I give him that credit, but we can't rely on turnovers for an entire season just to keep our heads above water. It's completely unsustainable. We don't have talent on our defense so I'd like to see Woods not completely rely on our safeties and linebackers every down and scheme up some more exotic and disguised coverages and blitzes every now and then.

The key is the line controlling the line of scrimmage and linebackers reading the gaps well.

When the PFF grades come out, I expect the defensive tackles and linebackers to get completely roasted. They deserve the harsh criticism this week.

I'd welcome anyone to suggest otherwise when the game was so clearly dominated through long chunk runs straight through the middle of the defense.

The Raiders ran a ton of counters with pulling o-linemen against our defense. Why? Because our defensive line doesn't get a ton of push against run-blocking and our linebackers are typically 5 yards off the line of scrimmage looking to cover a zone. We were thoroughly dominated and pushed back at the line of scrimmage and couldn't make them pay for pulling so many lineman as a result.

How do you stop that when you know it's coming? Put 7 defenders on the line of scrimmage to threaten between each gap and have them shoot the gap that the o-linemen pulls from. When you crowd the line of scrimmage you do a better job of controlling the gaps - which is why we made such a strong goal-line stand when we knew they were trying to punch it in.

Woods didn't do this at all. It took until the 4th quarter that he actually started putting 8 in the box and never crowded the line of scrimmage. It's conservative but we clearly don't have the 2019 Niners defense here. The weather dictated that the Raiders would pound the ball - Woods has to be more willing to adjust to circumstances in the game.

The fact that Woods was so inflexible and just let them pound it down the gut the entire game is not good. I know we sorely need more talent on defense - I'll stand on top of the mountains and yell it. But Woods hasn't been doing good in light of that. When we start looking at statistics and how often we give up 3rd and longs, 4th downs, etc... we HAVE to have better play-calling.
 

Randolphkeys

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Don't forget the perfectly thrown pass to Henry Ruggs in the endzone who didn't get both feet in. Also, he threw a TD to Hunter Renfrow that you left out. Not to mention Carr had 6 rushes for 41 yards. He wasn't exactly held in check by Woods's play-calling here.



Right - and my point is that there is such a thing as being TOO conservative at times. We've played 8 games now and the only game our defense had actually gotten consistent stops was the Colts game. Lamar, Burrow x2, Haskins, Dak, and Ben have shredded it pretty much at will. And I'd bet Carr would have also if not for the weather.

It has generated turnovers, I give him that credit, but we can't rely on turnovers for an entire season just to keep our heads above water. It's completely unsustainable. We don't have talent on our defense so I'd like to see Woods not completely rely on our safeties and linebackers every down and scheme up some more exotic and disguised coverages and blitzes every now and then.



The Raiders ran a ton of counters with pulling o-linemen against our defense. Why? Because our defensive line doesn't get a ton of push against run-blocking and our linebackers are typically 5 yards off the line of scrimmage looking to cover a zone. We were thoroughly dominated and pushed back at the line of scrimmage and couldn't make them pay for pulling so many lineman as a result.

How do you stop that when you know it's coming? Put 7 defenders on the line of scrimmage to threaten between each gap and have them shoot the gap that the o-linemen pulls from. When you crowd the line of scrimmage you do a better job of controlling the gaps - which is why we made such a strong goal-line stand when we knew they were trying to punch it in.

Woods didn't do this at all. It took until the 4th quarter that he actually started putting 8 in the box and never crowded the line of scrimmage. It's conservative but we clearly don't have the 2019 Niners defense here. The weather dictated that the Raiders would pound the ball - Woods has to be more willing to adjust to circumstances in the game.

The fact that Woods was so inflexible and just let them pound it down the gut the entire game is not good. I know we sorely need more talent on defense - I'll stand on top of the mountains and yell it. But Woods hasn't been doing good in light of that. When we start looking at statistics and how often we give up 3rd and longs, 4th downs, etc... we HAVE to have better play-calling.

Again, 16 points surrendered, running game dominated, we scored 6 points. This is your beef somehow? Pass defense? It's a simple matter of net cost and where the game was actually lost. That's it.
 

Rich

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Listen to these drives by the Raiders

1st drive, 10 plays (missed FG)

3rd drive, 16 plays (FG)

4th drive, 12 plays (FG)

5th drive, 15 plays (TD)

6th drive, 13 plays (FG)

I guess the one thing you can credit the defense for is not allowing TDs on these long drives except one.

But when you literally can't get the other team off the field at any point and they have all of these long, time consuming drives, you're giving your offense very little chance to respond unless you force some turnovers. They didn't.
 

Vee-Rex

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Again, 16 points surrendered, running game dominated, we scored 6 points. This is your beef somehow? Pass defense? It's a simple matter of net cost and where the game was actually lost. That's it.

The end-game points are irrelevant when weather conditions have an impact on the style of the game.

Also, where do you see me complaining about pass defense for this Raiders game? Either you're severely misunderstanding my post or this is just a strawmen argument. I'm complaining about the run defense this Raiders game and how the overall defense has been the entire year. We've seen some pretty talent-deficient Browns defenses in the last 20 years but some of these statistics this year are pretty staggering.
 

Randolphkeys

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The end-game points are irrelevant when weather conditions have an impact on the style of the game.

Also, where do you see me complaining about pass defense for this Raiders game? Either you're severely misunderstanding my post or this is just a strawmen argument. I'm complaining about the run defense this Raiders game and how the overall defense has been the entire year. We've seen some pretty talent-deficient Browns defenses in the last 20 years but some of these statistics this year are pretty staggering.

My thesis has been the play calling and scheme is designed to stop the run at the cost of short, underneath throws. The players, specifically the front seven, didn't make plays that should work within the scheme. I think PFF will support the problems being in execution.
 

redscoon

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The defense has to generate turnovers to be successful. If they don’t, they are giving up points almost every time. That’s why I’m not sure being conservative is the right approach. Is there solace in giving up a 9 minute TD drive as opposed to a quicker score? Getting gouged for 5 or 6 yards every play and steadily marched on until everybody is gassed is basically what happened today.

I have little doubt the Raiders could have gouged us through the air with a litany of short and intermediate throws to move the sticks if they needed to. It’s just the run defense was so embarrassing that they didn’t need to throw very much. The defense as a hole is a massive problem. If Myles isn’t disrupting things and generating a turnover or a drive killing sack, there really isn’t anything positive happening.
 

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