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Lord Mar

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Yeah, could have done this a month ago when he was still pumping 94 with a 2.70 ERA and 16.2 K/9 post AS break
No no...he's been a bum for a month now.

I just think Huber is thinking he should have shut it down a month ago, and I agree.
 

Derek

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No no...he's been a bum for a month now.

I just think Huber is thinking he should have shut it down a month ago, and I agree.
I'm not sure how you can make that argument when his velocity was peaking, and he was still performing well a month ago.

You wanted them to just shut him down out of the blue?

Sorry. ~3.5 weeks ago instead of 4. And since when do we worry about ERA and velocity here? He's been trash for weeks
So, you wanted them to shut him down after 1-2 bad outings?

Still doesn't make sense to me.
 

Lord Mar

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I'm not sure how you can make that argument when his velocity was peaking, and he was still performing well a month ago.

You wanted them to just shut him down out of the blue?
I get it.....or you could shut him down after he blew 2 or 3 saves?

Maybe Cimber can actually duplicate a good outting like yesterday more often and we'll be OK for the time being?
 

Derek

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I get it.....or you could shut him down after he blew 2 or 3 saves?

Maybe Cimber can actually duplicate a good outting like yesterday more often and we'll be OK for the time being?
But then he followed up those bad outings with 4 straight clean appearances. Blow ups, and bad streaks happen.

I understand being upset that we're without our closer during a tight race, but I don't think it's reasonable to think the team should have shut him down before this.
 

sportscoach

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But then he followed up those bad outings with 4 straight clean appearances. Blow ups, and bad streaks happen.

I understand being upset that we're without our closer during a tight race, but I don't think it's reasonable to think the team should have shut him down before this.
I agree with you on this one since you have to let guys get out of their funks if there is no sign of actual injury. Now I get the fact maybe we should have done an MRI a bit sooner since velocity down is not ever a good sign, but no way could we avoid losing Hand for a weekish or two in September regardless.
 

Derek

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I agree with you on this one since you have to let guys get out of their funks if there is no sign of actual injury. Now I get the fact maybe we should have done an MRI a bit sooner since velocity down is not ever a good sign, but no way could we avoid losing Hand for a weekish or two in September regardless.
To be fair, his velocity didn't start to dip until 8/24
 

sportscoach

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To be fair, his velocity didn't start to dip until 8/24
Thats when you start questioning if he's okay or not, so maybe could we have done something a week sooner, sure, but when their isn't a sign of pain outside of normal wear on a person, its hard to say in the moment what is the best option.

Also in my mind if we still had the Miller-Shaw-Allen bullpen, and one of them their velocity went down, we could afford to get guys days off, but with Hand-Wittgren then committee, we really just couldn't afford to do so in the middle of a pennant race.
 

Derek

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Thats when you start questioning if he's okay or not, so maybe could we have done something a week sooner, sure, but when their isn't a sign of pain outside of normal wear on a person, its hard to say in the moment what is the best option.

Also in my mind if we still had the Miller-Shaw-Allen bullpen, and one of them their velocity went down, we could afford to get guys days off, but with Hand-Wittgren then committee, we really just couldn't afford to do so in the middle of a pennant race.
But even then, he dipped to 91.6 for one appearance, at what point do you start worrying?

He averaged 91 in a late July appearance, but it was sandwiched between appearances where he was 93+

He was 90.4 and 90.7 in consecutive appearances in May, but was 93+ before it, and hit a season high 94.5 a week after it.
 

sportscoach

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But even then, he dipped to 91.6 for one appearance, at what point do you start worrying?

He averaged 91 in a late July appearance, but it was sandwiched between appearances where he was 93+

He was 90.4 and 90.7 in consecutive appearances in May, but was 93+ before it, and hit a season high 94.5 a week after it.
I would worry when effectiveness and velocity were down, but either way that was really a week window in a sense, so hard its impossible to say do it earlier in our situation since we didn't have anyone else to step into the closers role in the end either. You have to go with if he says he feels fine, then put him out there.
 

Derek

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I would worry when effectiveness and velocity were down, but either way that was really a week window in a sense, so hard its impossible to say do it earlier in our situation since we didn't have anyone else to step into the closers role in the end either. You have to go with if he says he feels fine, then put him out there.
But that's my question, when do you officially consider it down?

You can't schedule an MRI every time a reliever blows a lead, or has a cold day velocity-wise
 

sportscoach

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But that's my question, when do you officially consider it down?

You can't schedule an MRI every time a reliever blows a lead, or has a cold day velocity-wise
Oh I know, but it looks like to me, Francona did back off in pitching him in September in some ways to begin with, so my guess in hindsight would have been the Sept 4th outing, but hindsight is always 20/20 and at that time, coming off of 4 successful outings, one bad one isn't a red flag. Going by his outing sheet, the Aug 11th, 12th, 18th and 21st werent good outings, so maybe if we could have, got him extra rest after that in some ways, but he did come back numbers wise good after that, so even by that, there wasn't a time to really say, hey, we are going to put ya on the DL to rest your arm in a sense, which maybe is really what he needed in the end was to get some rest in that arm.
 

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