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Z wants 14 million a year!
- Thread starter Pioneer10
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We'll need a center ...if we gain offense on the perimeter and off the bench wecan live without an inconsistent offensive center, and a horrible defensive center. Let's generate offense on the perimeter, that will open up the inside for Lebron and Gooden.
Pioneer10
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The problem with this FA class is that there are no good or even decent Centers out there to be taken (last year atleast there was Dampier and Okur). Sure there Curry and Chandler but they're both restricted and the Bulls will sign them. Swift hasn't been able to get ahead of Gasol (which is OK as Gasol is good) but not even Lorenzen Wright. He's all talent without a good basketball IQ. Do we really want another Gooden playing beside the real one.
Odom is not a good for the Cavs and I hope this talk dies quickly. Lebron is too big for guarding quick Sg's all game. He's a natural 3 which Odom is best suited for. Frankly, I wouldnt' want Odom taking away minutes from a healthy Gooden/AV at the four either
Like it or not, Z remains our best option in a position that is difficult to fill. What will work in our favor as I doubt there is a team out there that will give an aging center who has big limitations (defense, rebounding) and can only play limited minutes the money he is asking for. Another plus is that the teams with money are all young building teams no way they put that much cash into injury prone, on the wrong side of 30 player
I'll say it again with a good backcourt a rotation of Z (limited minutes), Gooden, AV (whose minutes will increase), Tractor, and Lebron is as good a frontcourt as there is in the league
Odom is not a good for the Cavs and I hope this talk dies quickly. Lebron is too big for guarding quick Sg's all game. He's a natural 3 which Odom is best suited for. Frankly, I wouldnt' want Odom taking away minutes from a healthy Gooden/AV at the four either
Like it or not, Z remains our best option in a position that is difficult to fill. What will work in our favor as I doubt there is a team out there that will give an aging center who has big limitations (defense, rebounding) and can only play limited minutes the money he is asking for. Another plus is that the teams with money are all young building teams no way they put that much cash into injury prone, on the wrong side of 30 player
I'll say it again with a good backcourt a rotation of Z (limited minutes), Gooden, AV (whose minutes will increase), Tractor, and Lebron is as good a frontcourt as there is in the league
Z is not going to get anywhere over 10 or 11 million from a team that is in place to win. the only teams that can afford him are crappy teams looking to start over (atlanta, new orleans, etc.).
he will realize that if he wants to win, he will have to be loyal and take a pay cut to stay with the cavs or go rot out in the basketball wasteland of atlanta and never even come close to winning a ring just so he can have seven ferraris instead of six.
i don't see cleveland doing a sign and trade since Z really has no leverage here either. we paid him for many years on the injured list. he is getting older. still injury prone - shown by a couple absences this year. and has no good team out there that can afford him.
he will realize that if he wants to win, he will have to be loyal and take a pay cut to stay with the cavs or go rot out in the basketball wasteland of atlanta and never even come close to winning a ring just so he can have seven ferraris instead of six.
i don't see cleveland doing a sign and trade since Z really has no leverage here either. we paid him for many years on the injured list. he is getting older. still injury prone - shown by a couple absences this year. and has no good team out there that can afford him.
It seems the opinions are fairly divided, but with everyone agreeing that 14 million is too much. Coming from an Ilgauskas fan, yes 14 million is too much. Z has his limitations due to his feet, so you never pay near max money to players with concerns. However he is worth at least 10 million per season. Anyone who disagrees, has no clue on the market value on elite bigs. You cannot call Z injury prone after he was the healthiest starting big man in the entire NBA for the past 4 seasons. His finger injury has been his ONLY injury.
OK, we are trying to fit the right pieces with Lebron to keep him here. This means immediate results. Losing Z to free agency, you instantly put a massive hole in the middle. I dont care what shooter we sign, we lose our complete influence in the middle. Gooden, Traylor and Varejao do not demand attention. They dont have anywhere near the presense of Ilgauskas. Z is a smart player, and he has that 7'3 frame which detours many a play of the opposition. How do you replace this? Well you cannot. Not with whats out there. And if you try to with a Dalembert, Curry, Chandler, etc, you will be paying 10 million anyway for an inferior talent. Curry has no defensive abilities and cannot rebound. Chandler has no offensive game. Dalembert wishes he has Chandlers offensive game. These guys with 100 more limitations then Z, are in the market for around 10 million.
So here we have the No.3 center in the NBA, who is the best offensive rebounder in the NBA not called Ben Wallace, top shot blocker, great shooter at the line and field, and plenty of interior moves. People ignore this as he is seen as an "awkward" player. He's not showy, so he not wanted. He rarely gets to use his post moves as he is mugged inside due to our lack of presense elsewhere. Give him offensive alternatives, and Z gets to use his post moves. We tend to forget how easy a job he makes the four position. Gooden and Boozer will testify to this. Z does his struggles on the defensive ends with the pick'n'roll. In saying this he was actually better then our other guy defending this in McInnis. With Jeff gone, we will improve here, whilst never being great. Z isn't a great defender but he is decent. His shot blocking and frame makes up for his foot speed issues. He was our second best defender in our lineup after Newble, so his critisisms only have so much weight.
Losing Ilgauskas will be a big blow. People choose to forget how this team floundered around his injuries earlier in his career, and it wont surprise to see us stagnate again if he departs. He is totally unappreciated by the average fan, and for those who think there are better alternatives, better book in for a head check.
OK, we are trying to fit the right pieces with Lebron to keep him here. This means immediate results. Losing Z to free agency, you instantly put a massive hole in the middle. I dont care what shooter we sign, we lose our complete influence in the middle. Gooden, Traylor and Varejao do not demand attention. They dont have anywhere near the presense of Ilgauskas. Z is a smart player, and he has that 7'3 frame which detours many a play of the opposition. How do you replace this? Well you cannot. Not with whats out there. And if you try to with a Dalembert, Curry, Chandler, etc, you will be paying 10 million anyway for an inferior talent. Curry has no defensive abilities and cannot rebound. Chandler has no offensive game. Dalembert wishes he has Chandlers offensive game. These guys with 100 more limitations then Z, are in the market for around 10 million.
So here we have the No.3 center in the NBA, who is the best offensive rebounder in the NBA not called Ben Wallace, top shot blocker, great shooter at the line and field, and plenty of interior moves. People ignore this as he is seen as an "awkward" player. He's not showy, so he not wanted. He rarely gets to use his post moves as he is mugged inside due to our lack of presense elsewhere. Give him offensive alternatives, and Z gets to use his post moves. We tend to forget how easy a job he makes the four position. Gooden and Boozer will testify to this. Z does his struggles on the defensive ends with the pick'n'roll. In saying this he was actually better then our other guy defending this in McInnis. With Jeff gone, we will improve here, whilst never being great. Z isn't a great defender but he is decent. His shot blocking and frame makes up for his foot speed issues. He was our second best defender in our lineup after Newble, so his critisisms only have so much weight.
Losing Ilgauskas will be a big blow. People choose to forget how this team floundered around his injuries earlier in his career, and it wont surprise to see us stagnate again if he departs. He is totally unappreciated by the average fan, and for those who think there are better alternatives, better book in for a head check.
Pioneer10
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The problem is Karma that the Cavs are OK (according to Windhorst who seems to know what is going on) with him getting 3-4 years at 10 million each year. This is a very fair offer if it's true
If Z wants 14.6 million and he can find a taker (although I think this unlikely - see my previous post), what do we do at that point. I just can't imagine any team giving him that kind of cash: he's not a typical workhorse at center who can give 40+ minutes with defense, boards, etc. The more I watch of the more Rik Smits comes to mind (tall, jumpshooters who used their height reasonably well but were limited). 10 million for Z, aka Rick Smits, is very fair. He should take hopefully be willing to take it.
Like another poster mentioned, no good teams have that sort of cap space and I hope Z doesn't try to force a sign and trade by threatening to sign a cheaper contract with a winning team
If Z wants 14.6 million and he can find a taker (although I think this unlikely - see my previous post), what do we do at that point. I just can't imagine any team giving him that kind of cash: he's not a typical workhorse at center who can give 40+ minutes with defense, boards, etc. The more I watch of the more Rik Smits comes to mind (tall, jumpshooters who used their height reasonably well but were limited). 10 million for Z, aka Rick Smits, is very fair. He should take hopefully be willing to take it.
Like another poster mentioned, no good teams have that sort of cap space and I hope Z doesn't try to force a sign and trade by threatening to sign a cheaper contract with a winning team
Rimage
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14 million a year? No, let him walk if that is the case. Or sign and trade, but giving him 14 million a year? He must not want to stay in Cleveland that bad. How many games has he missed and still got paid his millions?
I know that a quality center is hard to find, but frankly, plenty of teams to don't have a quality center and they are doing better than us. Z is more than likely reached his peak. I don't want to tie up money on him either.
I hope Z gets a nice big contract and lots of love and success...somewhere else.
I know that a quality center is hard to find, but frankly, plenty of teams to don't have a quality center and they are doing better than us. Z is more than likely reached his peak. I don't want to tie up money on him either.
I hope Z gets a nice big contract and lots of love and success...somewhere else.
It bemuses me how some people are just happy to see him walk, no matter what the contract. I do agree that 14 million is excessive, but in today market, 10 million is his absolute minimum. To think he should be grateful to receive that is ridiculous considering some of the dollars other post players get.
You guys are a joke at times when you stem back to the "he got his money when he was injured" shit. The dude is heading for a terrible future with those feet. They are destroyed because he committed himself to playing. He would be in all sorts of discomfort now, so I'd hate to see him 10-20 years from now. He worked his arse off to get back to where he is now, so fu*k off with that sh!t talk. He could quite of easily picked up his pay check and not returned, and had a better standard of life in the future. But no, he chose to work hard to get back to assist the team that had faith in him. He came back, become a 2 time all star center, who more then made up for his time out. Those who challenge his integrity or compare this to Boozer or whatever are just a joke.
But hey, lets let the hard working, talented elite center go for an overpaid unachieving "upside" player who can run the break and get up stairs for nasty dunks. Because its all about showtime nowadays, and just looking flash. Who gives a fu&k about results eh!
You guys are a joke at times when you stem back to the "he got his money when he was injured" shit. The dude is heading for a terrible future with those feet. They are destroyed because he committed himself to playing. He would be in all sorts of discomfort now, so I'd hate to see him 10-20 years from now. He worked his arse off to get back to where he is now, so fu*k off with that sh!t talk. He could quite of easily picked up his pay check and not returned, and had a better standard of life in the future. But no, he chose to work hard to get back to assist the team that had faith in him. He came back, become a 2 time all star center, who more then made up for his time out. Those who challenge his integrity or compare this to Boozer or whatever are just a joke.
But hey, lets let the hard working, talented elite center go for an overpaid unachieving "upside" player who can run the break and get up stairs for nasty dunks. Because its all about showtime nowadays, and just looking flash. Who gives a fu&k about results eh!
Mad Hatter
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I'm not happy to see him walk, and I would like Z back, but I have concerns.
My main concern is his age. He turns 30 in June. My concern is not for next season, in which I think he will be much the same as this season. But at some point, he's going to start to drop off. And with big men, it tends to happen suddenly. 30 is not incredibly old, but he's been through a lot of surgeries and is relatively worn down. For this reason, I wouldn't want to go more than 3 guaranteed years in a contract. A team option for the 4th would be fine.
My other concern is our flexibility THIS year because this is a huge offseason. We are not going to have this kind of money to spend again for a long time. The first year of a new Z deal needs to be low. $9-10m would be ideal. The contract could escalate from there. Would Z take a deal starting at just $9m? This is less than his value, no doubt, but would help the team greatly.
Would Z take a 3 year, $33m deal structured at $9m, $11m, $13m? With a team option for a 4th year? I would be more than happy to sign him to a deal like that...
My main concern is his age. He turns 30 in June. My concern is not for next season, in which I think he will be much the same as this season. But at some point, he's going to start to drop off. And with big men, it tends to happen suddenly. 30 is not incredibly old, but he's been through a lot of surgeries and is relatively worn down. For this reason, I wouldn't want to go more than 3 guaranteed years in a contract. A team option for the 4th would be fine.
My other concern is our flexibility THIS year because this is a huge offseason. We are not going to have this kind of money to spend again for a long time. The first year of a new Z deal needs to be low. $9-10m would be ideal. The contract could escalate from there. Would Z take a deal starting at just $9m? This is less than his value, no doubt, but would help the team greatly.
Would Z take a 3 year, $33m deal structured at $9m, $11m, $13m? With a team option for a 4th year? I would be more than happy to sign him to a deal like that...
Let him walk..
Yea it's a tough loss for the Cavs but he is NO WAY worth that kind of money. Then you look at his age, he is already 30+ which is getting old for an NBA player. In his prime he had injuries left and right but this past year or so he has been healthy. But who says he will be healthy this next season and the year after? His age is getting up there and so are those feet of him. I say let him go, do a sign or trade or something. he is no way worth the money he wants from us.
Yea it's a tough loss for the Cavs but he is NO WAY worth that kind of money. Then you look at his age, he is already 30+ which is getting old for an NBA player. In his prime he had injuries left and right but this past year or so he has been healthy. But who says he will be healthy this next season and the year after? His age is getting up there and so are those feet of him. I say let him go, do a sign or trade or something. he is no way worth the money he wants from us.
I'm not sure I can give a better arguement for Z than karma can so i'll leave that to karma. 
Now, it seems gilbert doesn't want Z back at all. If this is the case, and gilbert won't pay to keep Z, then we need options people! Will we just use some scub in their? Probably gonna have to.
With 20 million, we're gonna have to up grade our other needs greatly if we lose Z. Ray Allen will be a must have, or at least a Joe Johnson/Mike Redd, and we're going to need to up grade the power forward position if we can. If we can't than our back court need to be really good. We'll need to add a ray allen, and a good point, and hope AV puts on 15-20 pounds this off season cause he's better than the centers on the open market, not restricted.
Now, it seems gilbert doesn't want Z back at all. If this is the case, and gilbert won't pay to keep Z, then we need options people! Will we just use some scub in their? Probably gonna have to.
With 20 million, we're gonna have to up grade our other needs greatly if we lose Z. Ray Allen will be a must have, or at least a Joe Johnson/Mike Redd, and we're going to need to up grade the power forward position if we can. If we can't than our back court need to be really good. We'll need to add a ray allen, and a good point, and hope AV puts on 15-20 pounds this off season cause he's better than the centers on the open market, not restricted.
Noone wants to pay Ilgauskas 14 million period. But the funny thing is some of you for reasons unknown to the smart basketball fan, dont want him back period.Deadlock said:
As for injuries, name an NBA big who has been healthier then Z in the past 4 years. You'll be searching for a long long time!
I don't think you can really say Z has been super healthy, he hasn't had anymore major injuries thank goodness, but his chronic back problems, and his insomnia always act up during every season effect his game in a negative way.
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