#JerrySlam

[Real Deal]

'Indians fans don't deserve shit'

Ctfu.

The Tribe needs their own hometown version of LeBron James. Wait never mind scratch that, they wouldn't further pay him when its time so he'll bolt.

 

[macbdog]

...so all Cleveland needs to support the team is to have the equivalent to Babe Ruth, Barry Bonds or Willie Mays play for them?

 

[Real Deal]

...so all Cleveland needs to support the team is to have the equivalent to Babe Ruth, Barry Bonds or Willie Mays play for them?

Well I can't say winning because fans still didn't show up to that. Besides the 90's but everyone knows why they were popular.

Put a Trout or Harper in our lineup and u don't think things will change?

 

[The Oi]

Do you guys think that if the current Indians team had the equivalent of Lofton/Vizquel/Baerga/Belle/Murray/Thome/Ramirez/Sorrento/Pena that the fans wouldn't show up for it?

 

[Real Deal]

Do you guys think that if the current Indians team had the equivalent of Lofton/Vizquel/Baerga/Belle/Murray/Thome/Ramirez/Sorrento/Pena that the fans wouldn't show up for it?

I'd love to see Dolan pay that salary

 

[The Oi]

I'd love to see Dolan pay that salary

Nobody would except the Yankees. Nor should they be expected to.

Just looking forward to being reminded of how far people will go to blame the customer for not responding positively to a bad product.

 

[Soda]

Do you guys think that if the current Indians team had the equivalent of Lofton/Vizquel/Baerga/Belle/Murray/Thome/Ramirez/Sorrento/Pena that the fans wouldn't show up for it?

I, personally, would go more often if I believed that they were driven to win a World Series. Not just showing a respectable output and hoping you sneak into the Wild Card where you can potentially go on a streak.

I understand where the Indians are and how they must operate to compete, but it's just a bit disheartening to be told, "hey, we can't try to win every year," or, "we're very excited with the players we are growing within our system." I don't hate them for it, but it hurts my enthusiasm.

 

[Nom]

We spend a lot of time arguing that fans would show up if they won 90 games every year like that's a badge of honor. That's pretty much the definition of bandwagon fans. Didn't we just spend 4 years making fun of Heat fans for this same thing?

2013 when they spent money, hired Tito, won 92 games - and attendance went DOWN was sort of the nail in the coffin.

They've been a mediocre team that has consistently had the worst or bottom 3 attendance. You can complain about the product all you want, but attendance hasn't matched performance by any measure.

 

[Real Deal]

I still can't get over the 'Indians fans don't deserve shit'

Before '95 we haven't won't anything since '54 which was a pennant. 41 years of irrelevance. Our grandpa's don't deserve shit before they leave this life.

1994-2001 was some electric years, 455 the fans was apart of it.

2002-2012 was another miserry besides that blind squirrel finding a nut year in '07.

An consistence at being inept and unacceptable lack luster baseball team for many, many years, but you expect fans to WASTE their hard earned money, and when they don't go, 'Indians fans don't deserve shit'

Hey fuck you, buddy.

 

[Nom]

I still can't get over the 'Indians fans don't deserve shit'

Before '95 we haven't won't anything since '54 which was a pennant. 41 years of irrelevance. Our grandpa's don't deserve shit before they leave this life.

1994-2001 was some electric years, 455 the fans was apart of it.

2002-2012 was another miserry besides that blind squirrel finding a nut year in '07.

An consistence at being inept and unacceptable lack luster baseball team for many, many years, but you expect fans to WASTE their hard earned money, and when they don't go, 'Indians fans don't deserve shit'

Hey fuck you, buddy.

This is kind of my point. You specifically picked a time period that included 2 rebuilds. Your expectations are that the team is good every year otherwise they don't deserve any support.

 

[Real Deal]

40 years to rebuild is a time period?

Baseball is a dying breed in this town, I know that and I also hate that it's fact. Fans find other things to do and enjoy their summer.

 

[Nom]

40 years to rebuild is a time period?

Baseball is a dying breed in this town, I know that and I also hate that it's fact. Fans find other things to do and enjoy their summer.

I don't know that it's really been top of mind for most fans since the 50's. The 90's were a pretty perfect storm of new stadium, no Browns, insanely good team.

I've used this before - but it's not like people in this town are ever talking about non-Indians baseball. I'd love to see World Series ratings here. Non-Browns football is still huge. Basketball has been popular ever since LeBron. I don't really think it's much of a baseball town.

And if we're being honest - it's probably less about a bad team or bad fans and more just urban sprawl, negative views of downtown, and bad parking. The Indians probably can't draw for a lot of reasons Tower City died.

 

[ajz20]

40 years to rebuild is a time period?

Baseball is a dying breed in this town, I know that and I also hate that it's fact. Fans find other things to do and enjoy their summer.

I think he meant that there were two rebuilds between 2002 and 2012. There lies part of the problem, as if things were done right they would have only needed one rebuild. From what I am gathering part of the reason that there seems to be such as a disagreement about the success of the franchise, is some of the people on the board do not put a premium on post season wins as a benchmark.
They seem to really value (over value IMO) finishes slightly above or below .500 as a "good or successful" year. Yes there are other teams doing worse (not one person has said this is the worst organization in MLB ), but that does not mean that your front office deserves a lifetime pass and jobs for life and are free from heavy criticism when they put a last place product on the field that is arguably the most boring team in professional baseball to watch on a nightly basis.
I guess if you are okay with years like this year and thought last year was a success then I see why you would want things to stay the same. But, the majority of the fan base clearly thinks otherwise.

If you think things will get better over the next 5-10 years then that is a perfectly good debate (there are reasons to argue that), but for the life of me I can't imagine how someone would say they are content with no playoff wins over an 8 year stretch. As a competitor (which is what sports is suppose to be out) this is really hard to accept.

 

[Nom]

I think he meant that there two rebuilds between 2002 and 2012. There lies part of the problem, as if things were done right they would have only needed one rebuild. From what I am gathering part of the reason that there seems to be such as a disagreement about the success of the franchise, is some of the people on the board do not put a premium on post season wins as a benchmark. They seem to really over value finishes slightly above or below .500 as a "good or successful" year. Yes there are other teams doing worse (not one person has said this is the worst organization in MLB ), but that does not mean that your front office deserves a lifetime pass and jobs for life and are free from heavy criticism when they put a last place product on the field that is arguable the most boring team in professional baseball to watch on a nightly basis. I guess if you are okay with years like this year and thought last year was a success then I see why you would want the status qou to stay the same. But, the majority of the fan base clearly thinks otherwise.

And yet when i argue they don't deserve to have the worst attendance in MLB, people push back.

If you're willing to admit they've been mediocre - then why are they last in attendance?

The Pirates from 2005-2009 never even made it to 70 wins - and they pulled more in attendance every year than the Tribe has the last 2 years. And the Tribe has had the 4th most wins in the AL the last 2 years.

When it comes to attendance - I'm not arguing they should have great or even good attendance. I'm wondering why they deserve to be completely dead last or 2nd last when performance and history doesn't match that.

 

[godfather]

Cleveland just has never been a really, really big baseball town. Cleveland is a great sports town, but baseball has always been the third banana.

'95 was the perfect storm. The Browns left, the Cavs weren't doing anything significant. And the Indians were finally good. So it caught on like wild fire.

The success of the '90s obviously played a big part in the popularity. But the Indians had just open up a new ballpark, Jacob's Field. You give a hungry sports town that, no Browns, and consistent winning, not a surprise they did so well then.

That doesn't make baseball really popular here though. My dad used to get grouchy over it, and call them fair weather fans. Since he was one of the true fans that would show up nearly every game, in the old Cleveland Stadium, when they were really bad.

But I don't really care, and I don't think he always got the point. Nothing wrong with being a fair weather fan. Do you have to like, and watch everything related to "Cleveland" just because you live in that area? No.

Sports are supposed to be entertainment. And if a loser Indians team doesn't excite, or interest majority of people in North East Ohio, there's nothing wrong with that.

I don't think you can really blame the fans. If people don't want to watch, or go to the game, that's their right. Tickets are expensive. Buying food is pricey. You shouldn't spend countless amounts of money, just to be a "true fan" if it doesn't give you any interest, or excitement.

That doesn't make Indians fans, bad fans. There's just not a large percentage of them. There are still hardcore and faithful true fans that show up no matter what, and support the hell out of the Tribe.

Obviously there are a lot of fair weather, front running fans, too. They exist in all sports. I wouldn't quite put them in the category of the Miami Heat.

Because they're still passionate people, it's just baseball in general is not as popular here as it is in other parts of the country.