#JerrySlam

[Steve_424]

Regarding Bourn and Swisher, why eat the contracts when there is nobody they are blocking? I mean, I'm all for guys like Holt getting some ABs in the 2nd half, but it's not like there's a Lindor-caliber player that isn't playing because of them.

As for Zimmer, he was just promoted to AA. I'm excited about the kid's future, but we need to pump the brakes on him a little bit and give him some time to develop.

 

[Steve_424]

By the way, the Indians' problem is this:

2015-Brady Aiken
2014-Bradley Zimmer
2013-Clint Frazier
2012-Tyler Naquin
2011-Francisco Lindor
2010-Drew Pomeranz
2009-Alex White
2008-Lonnie Chisenhall
2007-Beau Mills
2005-Trevor Crowe
2004-Jeremy Sowers
2003-Michael Aubrey
2003-Bradley Snyder
2002-Jeremy Guthrie
2001-Alan Horne
2001-Dan Denham
2000-Corey Smith
1998-Carsten Sabathia
1997-Tim Drew
1996-Danny Peoples
1995-David Miller

It's too early to judge either way on the last five picks, but right now that's ONE core player (Sabathia) in the last TWENTY drafts. THAT is the Indians' problem, not spending money or any of that other crap we keep hearing.

 

[MoFlo]

Wins since the start of 2013:

1.) St Louis 250
2.) Dodgers 242
3.) Pissburgh 238
4.) Washington 234
5.) Kansas City 233
6.) Detroit 231
7.) Angels 230
8.) Oakland 228
9.) Baltimore 228
10.) Yankees 223
11.) Tribe 222

 

[EdMonix11]

By the way, the Indians' problem is this:

2015-Brady Aiken
2014-Bradley Zimmer
2013-Clint Frazier
2012-Tyler Naquin
2011-Francisco Lindor
2010-Drew Pomeranz
2009-Alex White
2008-Lonnie Chisenhall
2007-Beau Mills
2005-Trevor Crowe
2004-Jeremy Sowers
2003-Michael Aubrey
2003-Bradley Snyder
2002-Jeremy Guthrie
2001-Alan Horne
2001-Dan Denham
2000-Corey Smith
1998-Carsten Sabathia
1997-Tim Drew
1996-Danny Peoples
1995-David Miller

It's too early to judge either way on the last five picks, but right now that's ONE core player (Sabathia) in the last TWENTY drafts. THAT is the Indians' problem, not spending money or any of that other crap we keep hearing.

I agree it's been a huge problem in the past but the drafts from 2010-2015 have been decent.

A couple years ago the Indians revamped their amateur scouting and it's really starting to show. Consensus was the Indians had the best draft last year and top 3 this year only because some people were tepid of the Aiken pick (which I loved).

 

[Steve_424]

I agree it's been a huge problem in the past but the drafts from 2010-2015 have been decent.

A couple years ago the Indians revamped their amateur scouting and it's really starting to show. Consensus was the Indians had the best draft last year and top 3 this year only because some people were tepid of the Aiken pick (which I loved).

I think Lindor, Zimmer, and Aiken will be core guys...I'm a little uncertain on the other two. But I do agree they seem to have done better as of late. I sure hope so.

 

[Stark]

I forgot Beau Mills and and Trevor Crowe existed.

Actually, almost that entire first round draft board over the years is absolutely horrible.

1995: David Miller -- Never made it to the majors.
1996: Danny Peoples -- Never made it to the majors. .242 career hitter at AAA.
1997: Tim Drew -- Five seasons in the majors with Cleveland, Montreal, and Atlanta. Career 2-4 record with a 7.02 ERA. Traded to the Expos with Bartolo Colon for Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee, Brandon Phillips, and Lee Stevens.
1998: C.C. Sabathia -- Fifteen years and counting in the majors with Cleveland, Milwaukee, and New York (AL). Career 212-127 record with a 3.69 ERA and 2531 strikeouts. Six time All-Star, two time AL Wins Leader, World Series Champion (2009), and 2007 AL Cy Young Award Winner. Traded to the Brewers for Michael Brantley, Matt LaPorta, Zach Jackson, and Rob Bryson.
2000: Corey Smith -- Fifteen years in the minor leagues. Made it to AAA where he had a career average of .232.
2001: Dan Denham -- Nine years in the minor leagues. Made it to AAA where he had a career record of 10-13 with a 5.83 ERA.
2001: Alan Horne -- Five seasons in the minor leagues. Made it to AAA where he had a career record of 2-3 with a 5.62 ERA.
2002: Jeremy Guthrie -- Twelve years and counting in the majors with Cleveland, Baltimore, Colorado, and Kansas City. Career record of 90-102 with a 4.30 ERA and 1018 strikeouts. Designated for assignment by the Indians in January, 2007 in favor of Trot Nixon and claimed by Baltimore.
2003: Brad Snyder -- Three years in the major leagues with Chicago (NL) and Texas. Career .167 average with 2 HR and 8 RBI. Claimed off waivers by Chicago after being DFA'd by Cleveland.
2003: Michael Aubrey -- Two years in the major leagues with Cleveland and Baltimore. Career .259 average with 6 HR and 17 RBI.
2004: Jeremy Sowers -- Four years in the major leagues with Cleveland. Career 18-30 record with a 5.18 ERA.
2005: Trevor Crowe -- Four years in the major leagues with Cleveland and Houston. Career .240 average with 4 HR and 68 RBI.

etc. etc.

The only players out of that bunch that have done anything productive in Major League Baseball are C.C. Sabathia, Jeremy Guthrie, Lonnie Chisenhall, Drew Pomeranz, and Francisco Lindor, with the latter three still not being sure things.

So out of twenty years of first round picks, we've drafted one ace, a back end starter, a fringe MLB 3B, and a bunch of other guys like Pomeranz and Lindor that we are still not fully sure about yet. Plus we traded Pomeranz for Ubaldo, so that didn't help us.

 

[Stark]

From 2010 to the present, we have drafted Drew Pomeranz, Francisco Lindor, Tyler Naquin, Clint Frazier, Justus Sheffield, Bradley Zimmer, and Brady Aiken.

Time will tell if this latest bunch will be more productive than the last decade and a half of duds we've drafted, but the potential seems to be there for that group of guys.

 

[EdMonix11]

I think Lindor, Zimmer, and Aiken will be core guys...I'm a little uncertain on the other two. But I do agree they seem to have done better as of late. I sure hope so.

The worst pick of the last five was probably Naquin and he's a Kevin Pillar clone (14 runs saved in CF this year for Toronto) with a better arm-- some scouts are saying he's an 80 defender and has an 80 arm. Just hope he hits enough to play everyday.

That's part of the reason I'd be okay with it if we decided to part ways with Carrasco for a young bat. We can replace him with a 'pitch to contact' guy with the type of defenders were starting to bring up to the MLB level-- Lindor, Urshela and soon-to-be Naquin and Zimmer. Kansas City has been doing that the last few years and having a ton of success. They're not spending as much on pitching because they have premium defenders. Everyone needs an ace, which is why they got Cueto but we'd still have Kluber.

 

[ajz20]

Wins since the start of 2013:

1.) St Louis 250
2.) Dodgers 242
3.) Pissburgh 238
4.) Washington 234
5.) Kansas City 233
6.) Detroit 231
7.) Angels 230
8.) Oakland 228
9.) Baltimore 228
10.) Yankees 223
11.) Tribe 222

Honestly this is a very hallow stat to me. Reason is the number of playoff wins is zero. Would we be excited if the cavs had the 11th most wins in the regular season and did nothing in the playoffs over a three year stretch? We would all be talking about how to fix the roster to become a championship contender.i know it is different because of the amount of teams that make the playoffs but still the goal is make the playoffs on a consistent basis and win a World Series. Two playoff appearances over 13 years under Shapiro and Antonetti to me is enough to merit new leadership.

 

[Steve_424]

Honestly this is a very hallow stat to me. Reason is the number of playoff wins is zero. Would we be excited if the cavs had the 11th most wins in the regular season and did nothing in the playoffs over a three year stretch? We would all be talking about how to fix the roster to become a championship contender.i know it is different because of the amount of teams that make the playoffs but still the goal is make the playoffs on a consistent basis and win a World Series. Two playoff appearances over 13 years under Shapiro and Antonetti to me is enough to merit new leadership.

I think the point was to illustrate this team isn't the dumpster fire you seem to suggest it to be.

 

[ajz20]

I think the point was to illustrate this team isn't the dumpster fire you seem to suggest it to be.

There is good young starting pitching to build on. But I am not confident Antonetti is the right guy for the job. Let's see how they finish the year. Right now they are a last place team that can't score runs. That is the reality of the situation.

 

[The Oi]

Wish I could remember which pitcher everyone was so pissed at me for predicting how badly he'd flame out and nailed almost exactly what his ERA and total games pitched before injury were.

It was Derek Lowe.

I predicted an ERA above 5.00 and that he'd pitch under 20 games for the Indians.

He went For 5.52 and 21 starts. I nailed the ERA and almost nailed the starts. Lot of attacks and controversy when I made the prediction and provided footage of his performance.

 

[Scrote Squad]

Wins since the start of 2013:

1.) St Louis 250
2.) Dodgers 242
3.) Pissburgh 238
4.) Washington 234
5.) Kansas City 233
6.) Detroit 231
7.) Angels 230
8.) Oakland 228
9.) Baltimore 228
10.) Yankees 223
11.) Tribe 222

Is being slightly above mediocre something to really tout?

 

[ajz20]

Is being slightly above mediocre something to really tout?

Those type of numbers are always easy to manipulate. I could go back and include 2012 and the raking would plummet. Over the past five years we are under .500. We deserve to see a team built that can make it to the playoffs 4 to 5 years on a row with a World Series appearance. If you are satisfied with a playoff appeance every 5 to 6 years then that to me is pretty sad as a fan. To each his own I guess. I have a few friends who are St. Louis Cardinal fans and they measure their success by playoff appearances and wins in October. That is the goal here or at least it should be.if the front office can't build a team who can win the division and make noise in October over an extended period of time, when why would you be so loyal to them and want to defend them to the death? That is something I just can't understand.

 

[macbdog]

It was Derek Lowe.

I predicted an ERA above 5.00 and that he'd pitch under 20 games for the Indians.

He went For 5.52 and 21 starts. I nailed the ERA and almost nailed the starts. Lot of attacks and controversy when I made the prediction and provided footage of his performance.

You also nailed your 'Mike Miller and James Jones will play like old guys' prediction.