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2012 Draft

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i don't think there's any way Golden State gives up the 7th pick, so all the talk is pretty pointless regarding this specific trade scenario. BUT, in regards to trading Varejao in general - the cavs should definitely try to trade Varejao in the near future while he still has some value.
 
You don't trade established talent for a shot in the dark. (and let's not pretend that #7 isn't just that) Especially when that established talent is one of the few remaining vets on the team with a decent contract, and has not shown decline yet. It's such a foolhardy and risky move, especially considering the high bust factor of bigs in this league. I just can't wrap my head around giving up a leader of this team for a project. But I digress, it isn't going to happen anyways. Andy will be on the team at the start of the season.

EDIT: and superstar potential doesn't mean squat to me. Oden, Kwame, Darko, etc. all had that "superstar potential". Superstar potential is not rare. Actually becoming one is.
 
KingDelonte13 said:
You don't trade established talent for a shot in the dark. (and let's not pretend that #7 isn't just that) Especially when that established talent is one of the few remaining vets on the team with a decent contract, and has not shown decline yet. It's such a foolhardy and risky move, especially considering the high bust factor of bigs in this league. I just can't wrap my head around giving up a leader of this team for a project. But I digress, it isn't going to happen anyways. Andy will be on the team at the start of the season.
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It's foolish to trade a veteran whose value will never be higher on a team that isn't going to compete for at least 2 more years?
 
elcheato said:
It's foolish to trade a veteran whose value will never be higher on a team that isn't going to compete for at least 2 more years?
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How do you know Andy's value will never be higher? What if he has another similar season to last year where he averages a double double? What if a team has a big that goes down in the future and they need a replacement?
 
bushwick_bill said:
We are not getting the 7th pick, no point on discussing it.
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It's pretty clear that the chances of getting the 7th pick are slim to none. What would you prefer to discuss though?

Drummond's heart?

MKG's hitch?

Barnes' brand?

Beal's height?

PJIII's vagina?

KentuckyCav said:
Alonzo Gee in a S&T?

Throw in the 24th pick.. .. Who says no first?
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Can't sign (and then trade, if that's what we were going to do) Gee until after the draft -- July 11th, I believe.
 
KingDelonte13 said:
How do you know Andy's value will never be higher? What if he has another similar season to last year where he averages a double double? What if a team has a big that goes down in the future and they need a replacement?
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A team picking in the top 10 is not going to trade for Varejao if one of their bigs goes down.
 
Varejao's value is not high. He is a role player. A good role player. Just because he plays for Cleveland doesn't make him more than that. His value is not the 7th pick in this draft or any draft. He is worth a late first by himself. Thats it.
 
With the Warriors being my hometown team, I'd be pretty disgusted with the Warriors FO if they moved down 17 spots in the draft for what amounts to a back-up/insurance bigman in Varejao. He'd be a great back-up but really? The Warriors had to go through a huge tank job to acquire the pick, and they repeatedly tried to make a deal with the Jazz to secure the pick. No way they let it go so easily.
 
Hawkins said:
Varejao's value is not high. He is a role player. A good role player. Just because he plays for Cleveland doesn't make him more than that. His value is not the 7th pick in this draft or any draft. He is worth a late first by himself. Thats it.
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I agree. Pus, his perceived value is much higher to a contender than to a lottery team.

If someone like OKC or Miami had #7 (from a trade), my guess is AV + #24 would make a lot more sense.

But to the Warriors? Something just doesn't add up. I think many of these rumors are to distract from what is actually going on. The trade Cleveland makes will come out of left field. It won't be something that is reported 7 days before the draft.
 
Hawkins said:
Varejao's value is not high. He is a role player. A good role player. Just because he plays for Cleveland doesn't make him more than that. His value is not the 7th pick in this draft or any draft. He is worth a late first by himself. Thats it.
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A role player? If I'm not mistaken he was somewhat in the run for the All Star team before his injury
 
Hawkins said:
Varejao's value is not high. He is a role player. A good role player. Just because he plays for Cleveland doesn't make him more than that. His value is not the 7th pick in this draft or any draft. He is worth a late first by himself. Thats it.
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Varejao is worth more than a late 1st.
 
KingDelonte13 said:
How do you know Andy's value will never be higher? What if he has another similar season to last year where he averages a double double? What if a team has a big that goes down in the future and they need a replacement?
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How are we going to get more than a top-10 pick at this point for Andy? Andy is going to be 30 years old, and his value is only going to decrease the longer he plays. I don't know how you think his value is that high to begin with, let alone going to be higher, when his body clearly is wearing down and he can't stay healthy.

Yes, the 7th pick, and whomever we take is a risk, a chance. But we're never going to be good if we're not presented the opportunity to take these chances. How do you think we're ever going to get better?



To expect Andy to be in one piece in a year is being very optimistic. To think he'll actually be playing at this level when we're ready to contend again is being delusional. The Cavs have nothing to lose trading him. I understand they don't want to give him away, nor should they.

The Cavs would, and should jump at this deal if true. You're never going to get better value in a trade for Andy than this.
 
chrisrich91 said:
Andy put up better STATS last year. His stats are better than the past because there was no talent on the team besides Kyrie Irving. With that cleared up, I didn't notice Andy's improvement in any category.

And you're missing the point by calling this merely a first round upgrade. This is allowing us to add another potential star to the young core at 7 instead of just a role player at 24. Andre Drummond could be at 7. He has franchise changing potential. Barnes could be there. He has All Star potential. No one can be sure what Lamb, Rivers, or Ross become, but they have the tools to be more than role players.

The NBA is a star driven league. If you get the chance to sacrifice an almost 30 year old veteran big for a shot at a 19-20 year old with star potential, you HAVE to do it.

I understand you plan on contending sooner rather than later. Unfortunately your plan doesn't matter. This is going to take a little while. At most your window of contention with a productive Andy is going to be one, playoff untested year long. That's not enough for me to hold on to him over a potential young stud.
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Your not watching close enough. Andy's man to man D on bigger centers was light years better last year. He was always great at P&R D, but he has improved other facets of his game. And you can't change the fact that he averaged a double double with elite defense last year.

We can agree to disagree. I am highly doubting Drummond is there at 7, but he has a 75% chance to bust in my opinion--I am just not high on him. And if Barnes makes it close to one all-star game I will be shocked. THIS draft is a quite a bit different than normal. There are a lot of high upside guys that are going to fall to #24. Q Miller, Harkless, Wroten all have the potential/upside that may be higher than Lamb,Rivers, Ross, and Barnes.
 
KingDelonte13 said:
You don't trade established talent for a shot in the dark. (and let's not pretend that #7 isn't just that) Especially when that established talent is one of the few remaining vets on the team with a decent contract, and has not shown decline yet. It's such a foolhardy and risky move, especially considering the high bust factor of bigs in this league. I just can't wrap my head around giving up a leader of this team for a project. But I digress, it isn't going to happen anyways. Andy will be on the team at the start of the season.

EDIT: and superstar potential doesn't mean squat to me. Oden, Kwame, Darko, etc. all had that "superstar potential". Superstar potential is not rare. Actually becoming one is.
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Unbelievable.

His "established talent" right now will mean nothing to us in 5 years when we're trying to win a title.

You know what's really rare? Becoming a star without star potential. To get another one of these guys with a real chance of becoming a star, you gotta give something up.

I hate the thought of Varejao playing anywhere else, but we need to be smart and forward thinking with the rebuild. He is expendable for a core piece.
 
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