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Kyrie Irving

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godfather said:
You totally took out of context what I said. Kyrie is as talented as any point guard. And offensively, there's no point guard more gifted than him.

I didn't say I think he's the best point guard in the NBA.

I think after this year, he will be mention as the best, or one of the best though.
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How do you define "most talented"? If it's a hidden talent, how do you know it's there? If it's an active talent, then it shouldn't be difficult to support through analytics.
 
winner0274 said:
He's just a rich man's Daniel Gibson! :chuckles:
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Fans act like that's such a crazy quote but in reality it didn't exactly stray too far from the truth. Inconsistent shooting, inability to get teammates involved,woeful effort in some pretty important games (Atlanta), and some of the worst defense I've ever witnessed. Kyrie made otherwise gimme D-League point guards look like they had a future with the league.

I'm not of the "rich mans Daniel Gibson" bandwagon and I'm also giving this entire team a fresh slate due to LeBron coming back but I'm not about to forget last season.

Kyrie's play was abysmal when compared to his actual talent and potential. It's my opinion that he is not a natural point guard and more of a shooting guard with the elite ball handling of a point guard.

I'm willing to give Kyrie the benefit of the doubt but that doesn't mean that his play last season gave him any sort of advantage going into this year in which LeBron James joined his team and he is now expected to compete for a championship. I personally believe he will excel under LeBron's wing and I'm rooting for him to grasp the pace of the game including both sides of the floor. His shooting slumps of last season are less worrisome to me than his inability to defend one on one or off the pick and roll which were some of leagues worst. He literally was worse than Boobie Gibson himself on defense.

If Boobie Gibson had Kyrie's ball handling and finishing skills he'd be a rich version of himself. Kyrie beat him out for that position last season.
 
JSS2306 said:
Fans act like that's such a crazy quote but in reality it didn't exactly stray too far from the truth. Inconsistent shooting, inability to get teammates involved,woeful effort in some pretty important games (Atlanta), and some of the worst defense I've ever witnessed. Kyrie made otherwise gimme D-League point guards look like they had a future with the league.

I'm not of the "rich mans Daniel Gibson" bandwagon and I'm also giving this entire team a fresh slate due to LeBron coming back but I'm not about to forget last season.

Kyrie's play was abysmal when compared to his actual talent and potential. It's my opinion that he is not a natural point guard and more of a shooting guard with the elite ball handling of a point guard.

I'm willing to give Kyrie the benefit of the doubt but that doesn't mean that his play last season gave him any sort of advantage going into this year in which LeBron James joined his team and he is now expected to compete for a championship. I personally believe he will excel under LeBron's wing and I'm rooting for him to grasp the pace of the game including both sides of the floor. His shooting slumps of last season are less worrisome to me than his inability to defend one on one or off the pick and roll which were some of leagues worst. He literally was worse than Boobie Gibson himself on defense.

If Boobie Gibson had Kyrie's ball handling and finishing skills he'd be a rich version of himself. Kyrie beat him out for that position last season.
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[video=youtube;wKjxFJfcrcA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKjxFJfcrcA[/video]
 
RPM: Player's estimated on-court impact on team performance, measured in net point differential per 100 offensive and defensive possessions. RPM takes into account teammates, opponents and additional factors

Kyrie was 42nd ranked PG: http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/RPM/position/1

AV was 4th ranked center: http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/9

Win Shares per 48
Kyrie .128
AV .144
Steph Curry .225

Right NOW Kyrie is NOT in Steph's league as a shooter.

TS%
Steph 61%
Kyrie 53.5%

eFG%
Steph 56.6%
Kyrie 48%

And yes, Kyrie is younger. But the main issue is his rookie year was better than his 2nd year and that was better than last year. And it is safe to say the talent around him was better last year than his rookie year, correct?

Steph has improved each year in the league--and with his improvement came more wins for his team.

All that said, I am sure playing with Lebron will help or so I hope it will. Time will tell. But a few fancy dribbling moves here and there does not scream "superstar talent" to me. I am going to be happy to be proven wrong.
 
AvonCavsFan said:
RPM: Player's estimated on-court impact on team performance, measured in net point differential per 100 offensive and defensive possessions. RPM takes into account teammates, opponents and additional factors

Kyrie was 42nd ranked PG: http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/RPM/position/1

AV was 4th ranked center: http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/9

Win Shares per 48
Kyrie .128
AV .144
Steph Curry .225

Right NOW Kyrie is NOT in Steph's league as a shooter.

TS%
Steph 61%
Kyrie 53.5%

eFG%
Steph 56.6%
Kyrie 48%

And yes, Kyrie is younger. But the main issue is his rookie year was better than his 2nd year and that was better than last year. And it is safe to say the talent around him was better last year than his rookie year, correct?

Steph has improved each year in the league--and with his improvement came more wins for his team.

All that said, I am sure playing with Lebron will help or so I hope it will. Time will tell. But a few fancy dribbling moves here and there does not scream "superstar talent" to me. I am going to be happy to be proven wrong.
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I would totally agree with you. If context didn't matter at all.

Let's swap teams last season and see if those numbers look the same.

Curry may be a little ahead of Kyrie (please reference their ages and experience in the league) but, it is not by as much as you are trying to present.

This is my least favorite sentence uttered on this site, but, do you even watch the games?
 
gijimbo said:
I would totally agree with you. If context didn't matter at all.

Let's swap teams last season and see if those numbers look the same.

Curry may be a little ahead of Kyrie (please reference their ages and experience in the league) but, it is not by as much as you are trying to present.

This is my least favorite sentence uttered on this site, but, do you even watch the games?
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I agree. 3 years ago Curry had a lot of injury issues and he was on a 23 win team. He obviously made a pretty big leap, but I don't think it's a coincidence that as his team got better, so did he.

Can't wait to see Kyrie in the playoffs. That's when a player can finally kill some of the "he's overrated" discussion
 
gijimbo said:
I would totally agree with you. If context didn't matter at all.

Let's swap teams last season and see if those numbers look the same.

Curry may be a little ahead of Kyrie (please reference their ages and experience in the league) but, it is not by as much as you are trying to present.

This is my least favorite sentence uttered on this site, but, do you even watch the games?
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I watched every single game and posted as much in the game threads. What would you like to debate?
 
JSS2306 said:
I watched every single game and posted as much in the game threads. What would you like to debate?
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I was honestly just messing with you. I got a second shift job about halfway through the season, so I didn't even watch EVERY game. Props to you. I'm mostly jealous.

I am not 100% sold on Kyrie either. I understand his numbers have went down over these first few seasons. That is rare for a star type of player.

I would just argue that this is a really unique situation in NBA history and to give Irving a chance. I believe, if he stays healthy, his numbers will rival Curry's.
 
I think Curry has an argument to be in the top 5 players in the league (Talked about this earlier but after the first 2...who you got? A lot of people will say Paul, but I think that's somewhat debatable. But then its basically a pick em between 6-7 guys). I can't imagine anyone would make that same argument for Kyrie.
 
Rich said:
I think Curry has an argument to be in the top 5 players in the league (Talked about this earlier but after the first 2...who you got? A lot of people will say Paul, but I think that's somewhat debatable. But then its basically a pick em between 6-7 guys). I can't imagine anyone would make that same argument for Kyrie.
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After the way Irving played last season, I would lean toward agreeing with you. However, I really do think having a new system and first year coach makes a difference (Nevermind the fact that this was Mike Brown, who admitted that offense wasn't even a factor in practices until the season started practically).

Of course, that influence is impossible to quantify. But, I feel that Irving has the ability to be a top 10-15 player in the league. Just give him some time. Most players don't hit their peaks until they are mid to late twenties.
 
JSS2306 said:
Nope. Only times I didn't post in game threads was when I was at the actual game. I'm a season ticket holder (partial).
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This makes me sad. Sigh. A cleveland cavalier season ticket holder kind of agrees with a laughable statement that kyrie is a rich mans boogie Gibson.

I thought wums where only on the internet but their in stadiums too which makes me even more sad. Sigh sigh sigh.
 
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