Kyrie Irving

[Cavsengland]

Wow, it's obvious some people forget how talented Kyrie is... It was somewhat masked last year by Mike Brown's offense. Some of you guys are going to be shocked by Kyrie this year but the knowledgeable fans won't be, his talent is obvious.

It's one bored (possibly drunk) trolling wum that is disregarding kyries talent. Everyone else seems to be talking sense.

 

[Cavsengland]

If Varejao and Kyrie were the same age they'd still value Kyrie more. I'm not saying Varejao is a bad player. He's good, but, Kyrie Irving mediocre? Are you going to back this up with some stats or are you just going to keep saying things because you believe them to be true?

Why are you still taking him/her seriously?

Biggest wum on the internet. That clearly loves the attention.

 

[CavsFTW]

If Varejao and Kyrie were the same age they'd still value Kyrie more. I'm not saying Varejao is a bad player. He's good, but, Kyrie Irving mediocre? Are you going to back this up with some stats or are you just going to keep saying things because you believe them to be true?

I agree that GMs probably would value Irving more. He has scary potential. Varejao just goes out and produces without the hype. His impact is more Noah-like than RCF members care to admit.

 

[amil99]

Screw him calling Irving an "empty stat padder" im still trying to figure out when Andy became a "rim protecting big"

 

[CavsFTW]

Why are you still taking him/her seriously?

Biggest wum on the internet. That clearly loves the attention.

Just because we disagree about Irving doesn't mean we disagree on all Cavs related subjects. It also doesn't give one the right to defame someone's character.

 

[CavsFTW]

Screw him calling Irving an "empty stat padder" im still trying to figure out when Andy became a "rim protecting big"

Varejao doesn't block shots, but if you think Varejao isn't a quality defender -- you'd be wrong. How's Kyrie's defense btw? Pretty good, right? *wink-wink*

 

[amil99]

Varejao doesn't block shots, but if you think Varejao isn't a quality defender -- you'd be wrong. How's Kyrie's defense btw? Pretty good, right? *wink-wink*

Lmao. Who said Andy wasnt a good defender? YOU said he was a rim protecting big which is false. Now I know that troll shit comes in the form of an internet post because you're pulling shit straight out the ass

 

[CosmoKramer]

Do you honestly believe box score averages is a fair basis to compare players? Why exclude a player's defense and on/off court impact? Why not compare their WS/48 or something that says more about their overall impact?

Yeah, do you think I'm the first one to do this? It's obviously not perfect, but a box score does a decent job at summarizing a two hour NBA game into a few key numbers. There's faults; I know there's no stats for a great screen, forcing a pickup, saving a loose ball, or a perfectly timed rotation.

Win Shares isn't a terrible stat, but it's much more team derivative and not fair when comparing player to player. I prefer to use box score numbers over Win Shares, you don't see outliers like DeAndre Jordan as a top-10 overall player and Robin Lopez as a top-20 player.

That's not a good argument. Teams don't just value production -- they also value potential and youth. Varejao has neither. Many still consider Kyrie a budding superstar, regardless of how mediocre he's been.

Glad to see 21/6/4 out of a 21-year-old is mediocre. That's a career season for most players, 27-year-old Goran Dragic just averaged a 20/6/3 in his breakout year. 23-year-old Damian Lillard just averaged a 21/6/4, yet that's probably mediocre to you as well.

 

[CavsFTW]

Lmao. Who said Andy wasnt a good defender? YOU said he was a rim protecting big which is false. Now I know what troll shit comes in the form of an internet post because you're pulling shit straight out the ass

Score one for amil99. This is a sweet victory. I said rim protecting big, which has been proven false. Indeed, Varejao doesn't block shots, but his presence does reduce opponents' efficiency, so the effect remains the same.

 

[CavsFTW]

Yeah, do you think I'm the first one to do this? It's obviously not perfect, but a box score does a decent job at summarizing a two hour NBA game into a few key numbers. There's faults; I know there's no stats for a great screen, forcing a pickup, saving a loose ball, or a perfectly timed rotation.

Win Shares isn't a terrible stat, but it's much more team derivative and not fair when comparing player to player. I prefer to use box score numbers over Win Shares, you don't see outliers like DeAndre Jordan as a top-10 overall player and Robin Lopez as a top-20 player.



Glad to see 21/6/4 out of a 21-year-old is mediocre. That's a career season for most players, 27-year-old Goran Dragic just averaged a 20/6/3 in his breakout year. 23-year-old Damian Lillard just averaged a 21/6/4, yet that's probably mediocre to you as well.

I never said Irving's box score stats were mediocre. I called them empty. I also said they don't help the Cavs win games. For how much he handles the ball you'd expect more wins from a player that's "on par" with Stephen Curry.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Andrew Bogut blocked 1.8 shots a game last year while leading the NBA in opponent's field goal efficiency in the paint. So, it seems there is a correlation between shot blocking and defending the rim, but certainly not direct correlation. I expect skinny britches Nerlens Noel to block plenty of shots this year, but will get thumped around on the low block quite a bit.

That said, Varejao played out of shape and rusty from his wedding/injuries last year. I'm certain he has more motivation and will be in better shape this year.

 

[amil99]

Score one for amil99.

Damn right

 

[SalvadoranCavsfan]

Damn right

 

[godfather]

You totally took out of context what I said. Kyrie is as talented as any point guard. And offensively, there's no point guard more gifted than him.

I didn't say I think he's the best point guard in the NBA.

I think after this year, he will be mention as the best, or one of the best though.

 

[winner0274]

He's just a rich man's Daniel Gibson! :chuckles: