Kyrie Irving

[CavsFan87]

Ok, you're arguing that stats are easier to attain on a much better team, but that argument is impractical when the player in question is that team's best player. That point is easily countered by the fact that Curry is his team's best player and the player leading his team to playoff berths, as opposed to Irving who leads his team to the lottery in the weak East. In fact, it could be argued that Irving isn't even his team's best player. That designation should go to Varejao.

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I won't bother commenting on the bold, I only bolded it to make sure I was reading it correctly


Also, in case you missed it, Golden State had - Klay Thompson, AI, David Lee, Bogut and a better coach last year.

Just stop...

 

[Lazor]

Ok, you're arguing that stats are easier to attain on a much better team, but that argument is impractical when the player in question is that team's best player. That point is easily countered by the fact that Curry is his team's best player and the player leading his team to playoff berths, as opposed to Irving who leads his team to the lottery in the weak East. In fact, it could be argued that Irving isn't even his team's best player. That designation should go to Varejao.

Lmao I'm done with you after you said Varejao should be designated the teams best player

 

[CavsFTW]

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I won't bother commenting on the bold, I only bolded it to make sure I was reading it correctly


Also, in case you missed it, Golden State had - Klay Thompson, AI, David Lee, Bogut and a better coach last year.

Just stop...

Well, then you vastly underrate Varejao. Not my problem. I'll take an efficient rim protector over a stat padding turnstile without giving a second thought.

 

[CosmoKramer]

The first two responses have been predictable so far. Box score averages -- which is practically the only measurement where Irving compares with Curry. Why not post a more comprehensive measurement that figures in both offense and defense?

Box score averages? Most people refer to them as stats, and unless you're watching every game in the NBA each night I doubt you don't use them yourself. I can understand why you're quick to refute them though, it basically kills your argument that Kyrie and Curry are on entirely different levels.

And what comprehensive measurement that figures in both offense and defense are you referring to? To my knowledge I can't think of a single such number universally accepted that could portray that. PER is the most commonly accepted single-number player ranking, but that's hardly an all-encompassing stat for a player's entire game. So, points and assists don't work for you? What was I supposed to be using again?

Let's see Kyrie's overall impact instead of deceptive numbers that can be easily inflated on bad teams.

Deceptive numbers? Are we looking at the same post?

And Kyrie's played on some bad teams, but you do realize Golden State was terrible in Steph's first three seasons there, right? They finished 26-56, 36-46, then 23-43. I'm guessing you didn't know that, or you wouldn't have brought it up. :chuckles:

There's also a problem with the age/experience argument. Curry's made notable improvement each year he's been in the league. Kyrie hasn't. Kind of hard to reach Curry's level when you're spinning your wheels.

Kyrie has improved parts of his game every year he's been in the league. Just last season I thought Kyrie made notable improvements on defense (going from an abomination to just awful). He also cut down on his turnovers and for the first time accepted responsibility for the team's play.

If anything, it's kinda hard to reach Curry's level when you're not surrounded by gifted offensive players like Klay Thompson and David Lee. Now that Kyrie has a comparable support cast (I'd argue better) let's see where his percentages start heading.

 

[CavsFTW]

Lmao I'm done with you after you said Varejao should be designated the teams best player

Verejao's a differencemaker every time he steps on the court. Mr. Empty Stats isn't.

 

[Cavsengland]

Well, then you vastly underrate Varejao. Not my problem. I'll take an efficient rim protector over a stat padding turnstile without giving a second thought.

What?

Its clear now..... your a bored wum.

 

[SalvadoranCavsfan]

Verejao's a differencemaker every time he steps on the court. Mr. Empty Stats isn't.

Literally every team in the NBA would take Kyrie over Varejao. I've met some trolls in my day, but, holy shit dude.

 

[amil99]

I remember when trolling was a creative art...ah good times:chuckles:

 

[CavsFTW]

Box score averages? Most people refer to them as stats, and unless you're watching every game in the NBA each night I doubt you don't use them yourself. I can understand why you're quick to refute them though, it basically kills your argument that Kyrie and Curry are on entirely different levels.

And what comprehensive measurement that figures in both offense and defense are you referring to? To my knowledge I can't think of a single such number universally accepted that could portray that. PER is the most commonly accepted single-number player ranking, but that's hardly an all-encompassing stat for a player's entire game. So, points and assists don't work for you? What was I supposed to be using again?



Deceptive numbers? Are we looking at the same post?

And Kyrie's played on some bad teams, but you do realize Golden State was terrible in Steph's first three seasons there, right? They finished 26-56, 36-46, then 23-43. I'm guessing you didn't know that, or you wouldn't have brought it up. :chuckles:



Kyrie has improved parts of his game every year he's been in the league. Just last season I thought Kyrie made notable improvements on defense (going from an abomination to just awful). He also cut down on his turnovers and for the first time accepted responsibility for the team's play.

If anything, it's kinda hard to reach Curry's level when you're not surrounded by gifted offensive players like Klay Thompson and David Lee. Now that Kyrie has a comparable support cast (I'd argue better) let's see where his percentages start heading.

Do you honestly believe box score averages is a fair basis to compare players? Why exclude a player's defense and on/off court impact? Why not compare their WS/48 or something that says more about their overall impact?

 

[CavsFan87]

Verejao's a differencemaker every time he steps on the court. Mr. Empty Stats isn't.

It's Flip Saunders trying to get us to throw in Kyrie Irving as a "filler" for Love

 

[Cavsengland]

I remember when trolling was a creative art...ah good times:chuckles:

:chuckles:Tbh it took me a good 15 minutes arguing with him about kyrie to realise he's trolling. Or in British terms a wum.
(wind up merchant)

 

[CavsFTW]

Literally every team in the NBA would take Kyrie over Varejao. I've met some trolls in my day, but, holy shit dude.

That's not a good argument. Teams don't just value production -- they also value potential and youth. Varejao has neither. Many still consider Kyrie a budding superstar, regardless of how mediocre he's been.

 

[SalvadoranCavsfan]

That's not a good argument. Teams don't just value production -- they also value potential and youth. Varejao has neither. Many still consider Kyrie a budding superstar, regardless of how mediocre he's been.

If Varejao and Kyrie were the same age they'd still value Kyrie more. I'm not saying Varejao is a bad player. He's good, but, Kyrie Irving mediocre? Are you going to back this up with some stats or are you just going to keep saying things because you believe them to be true?

 

[DatDudeZ3]

Wow, it's obvious some people forget how talented Kyrie is... It was somewhat masked last year by Mike Brown's offense. Some of you guys are going to be shocked by Kyrie this year but the knowledgeable fans won't be, his talent is obvious.

 

[CavsFan87]

Wow, it's obvious some people forget how talented Kyrie is... It was somewhat masked last year by Mike Brown's offense. Some of you guys are going to be shocked by Kyrie this year but the knowledgeable fans won't be, his talent is obvious.

Lol the only person taking shots at Kyrie is CavsFTW who we've all figured out, is a wum/troll