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Brendan Haywood's Trade Exception

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yep - pretty much.

although needs to be said - you can probably find a decent summer deal using haywood's contract - trying to replace love - without it being a sign and trade deal...

but the additional flexibility of being able to receive a player via sign and trade is certainly a very significant upgrade to the number of possible scenarios.

hopefully it doesn't come to this, but I do wonder if the cavs using haywood now in a trade (or not using him), means something regarding how they view their chances to keep love around.
 
man, this dude clearly doesn't belong in the nba anymore. He's lucky he has that lucrative contract for us. Not only will he get paid this season, but he'll probably receive whatever performance bonus the team will get depending on achievements.

wish we could waive him and have a roster spot open.
 
In today's game, Haywood was able to showcase why it's a good for the Cavs to get Perkins.

I thought Haywood showcased why we don't want another over-the-hill center that can't rebound or move laterally to save their life. I'm a full subscriber to the ABBH (anyone but Brendan Haywood) line of thinking though, but damn I just don't see much of an upgrade.
 
man, this dude clearly doesn't belong in the nba anymore. He's lucky he has that lucrative contract for us. Not only will he get paid this season, but he'll probably receive whatever performance bonus the team will get depending on achievements.

wish we could waive him and have a roster spot open.

The dream scenario would be to win a title this year, then trade him for a complimentary player and have him retire a champion.
 
Can't we trade him for someone making up to $10 million this summer? Or do I misunderstand what we can do under the cap? If we could, that is a great opportunity to add depth.
 
Can't we trade him for someone making up to $10 million this summer? Or do I misunderstand what we can do under the cap? If we could, that is a great opportunity to add depth.

I think we are more likely to trade him for picks in a three team deal or something.

I really did think he might be able to play himself into shape this season to be able to be that 10 minute per game big. But he looks to be in even worse shape than he was and his feel for the game just seems to be completely gone.
 
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Can't we trade him for someone making up to $10 million this summer? Or do I misunderstand what we can do under the cap? If we could, that is a great opportunity to add depth.
We can't and wont take on a 10 million dollar player and be able to keep JR and Shump.
It wont be as easy as people think to use his salary in a trade. Will have to find a team that wants to dump salary that has a player we feel useful. Basically, have realistic expectations with what we can get.
 
Except that is the exact reason why we took the contract, to add a big piece. JR has a player option. So if he wants to, he can stay. Shump is restricted. So we can go over to sign him. TT is restricted too, and apparently he wants to get paid. So it might take a tap dance, but there is a possibility of picking up an interesting player with this contract. But you are correct, expectations should be managed.
 
I thought Haywood showcased why we don't want another over-the-hill center that can't rebound or move laterally to save their life. I'm a full subscriber to the ABBH (anyone but Brendan Haywood) line of thinking though, but damn I just don't see much of an upgrade.

Perkins is only thirty. I'd hardly call that over the hill. Haywood is five years older.
 
Perkins is only thirty. I'd hardly call that over the hill. Haywood is five years older.

I'll call it over-the-hill. They've both played over 16,000 minutes in their careers as 10+ year NBA veterans, despite Perkins only being 30 it's hard to argue he's not past his prime.
 
I'll call it over-the-hill. They've both played over 16,000 minutes in their careers as 10+ year NBA veterans, despite Perkins only being 30 it's hard to argue he's not past his prime.
But why does our 4th big have to be in his prime?
 
Except that is the exact reason why we took the contract, to add a big piece. JR has a player option. So if he wants to, he can stay. Shump is restricted. So we can go over to sign him. TT is restricted too, and apparently he wants to get paid. So it might take a tap dance, but there is a possibility of picking up an interesting player with this contract. But you are correct, expectations should be managed.

Sure, Cavs have Bird rights to Smith and Shumpert, and can pay both of them up to the max if they want. In theory they can keep both.

However, my back of the envelope math says that with Smith and Shumpert both back, both making in the $6.5M range (which may understate what the open market will pay them), and with Thompson and Delly back, and of course with LeBron and Love back, and with the (notional) #24 pick in the draft, plus the taxpayers MLE -- the Cavs' team salary will be over $102M, probably over $106M. I have seen some estimate the Cavs' team salary in 2015-16 at circa $100M, but what I am saying is it will be higher.

By comparison, per Hoopshype, Brooklyn has the highest team salary this year at $87M.

It simply isn't reasonable to think the Cavs will bring all their free agents back AND use the Haywood trade chip to bring back significant additional salary. And obviously you would need to bring back salary of some sort to make the trade math work if you were to trade Haywood. For that reason, I thought it was a good idea to trade Haywood at the deadline at his lower 2014-15 salary for a package along the lines of Plumlee and Norris Cole, which would have been a financially efficient use of the Haywood asset.

But he wasn't traded, and that's why I think the main value of the Haywood chip at this point is as protection in case Love, Thompson, Shumpert, or Smith leaves in free agency.

Actually, I should omit Thompson here, because I think there is virtually no chance that he leaves. And I think the chances are extremely high that Love stays as well. Delly will probably be back too, but I don't think he will break the bank.

That leaves Smith and Shumpert. Unlike many, I actually was cautiously optimistic about the trade for Smith. But of these two, I think the Cavs would clearly prioritize Shumpert. He is younger, and of course the Cavs can match any offer he receives since he is an RFA. With their willingness to spend, the Cavs may deter any potential offers.

But with Smith, given his age and mileage, I think the Cavs should proceed with caution. Rather than overpay to keep him, the Cavs can try to use the Haywood contract to slot a player into Smith's salary. This will be easier said than done, because the Cavs presumably won't want to offer much in addition to the savings the Haywood contract will provide, and they won't want to add just any player (or players) who happen to be available via a salary dump.

This all assumes that Smith will decline his player option. At this point, I think this is a safe assumption.

Another thing people need to keep in mind when they worry about the Cavs' potentially not using the Haywood trade chip, is that the Cavs unexpectedly (well, maybe not that unexpectedly) were granted the DPE this year for the Varejao injury, and were able to leverage this tool to acquire a much needed bigman, plus two wings. Without the Varejao injury, the Cavs wouldn't have been able to acquire all three players. So another way to look at it is that Mozgov is the player the Cavs wanted to acquire via the Haywood chip in summer 2015. They just got him half a season early.
 
Sure, Cavs have Bird rights to Smith and Shumpert, and can pay both of them up to the max if they want. In theory they can keep both.

However, my back of the envelope math says that with Smith and Shumpert both back, both making in the $6.5M range (which may understate what the open market will pay them), and with Thompson and Delly back, and of course with LeBron and Love back, and with the (notional) #24 pick in the draft, plus the taxpayers MLE -- the Cavs' team salary will be over $102M, probably over $106M. I have seen some estimate the Cavs' team salary in 2015-16 at circa $100M, but what I am saying is it will be higher.

By comparison, per Hoopshype, Brooklyn has the highest team salary this year at $87M.

It simply isn't reasonable to think the Cavs will bring all their free agents back AND use the Haywood trade chip to bring back significant additional salary. And obviously you would need to bring back salary of some sort to make the trade math work if you were to trade Haywood. For that reason, I thought it was a good idea to trade Haywood at the deadline at his lower 2014-15 salary for a package along the lines of Plumlee and Norris Cole, which would have been a financially efficient use of the Haywood asset.

But he wasn't traded, and that's why I think the main value of the Haywood chip at this point is as protection in case Love, Thompson, Shumpert, or Smith leaves in free agency.

Actually, I should omit Thompson here, because I think there is virtually no chance that he leaves. And I think the chances are extremely high that Love stays as well. Delly will probably be back too, but I don't think he will break the bank.

That leaves Smith and Shumpert. Unlike many, I actually was cautiously optimistic about the trade for Smith. But of these two, I think the Cavs would clearly prioritize Shumpert. He is younger, and of course the Cavs can match any offer he receives since he is an RFA. With their willingness to spend, the Cavs may deter any potential offers.

But with Smith, given his age and mileage, I think the Cavs should proceed with caution. Rather than overpay to keep him, the Cavs can try to use the Haywood contract to slot a player into Smith's salary. This will be easier said than done, because the Cavs presumably won't want to offer much in addition to the savings the Haywood contract will provide, and they won't want to add just any player (or players) who happen to be available via a salary dump.

This all assumes that Smith will decline his player option. At this point, I think this is a safe assumption.

Another thing people need to keep in mind when they worry about the Cavs' potentially not using the Haywood trade chip, is that the Cavs unexpectedly (well, maybe not that unexpectedly) were granted the DPE this year for the Varejao injury, and were able to leverage this tool to acquire a much needed bigman, plus two wings. Without the Varejao injury, the Cavs wouldn't have been able to acquire all three players. So another way to look at it is that Mozgov is the player the Cavs wanted to acquire via the Haywood chip in summer 2015. They just got him half a season early.

I think your envelope math is off a little. Keep in mind that Hoopshype counts all salary team's are obligated to in their figure so that $58M number includes the player options for James, Love, Smith and Miller and the Qualifying Offers for TT and Shump. You must have added some or all of those to the Hoopshype number.

Just did a quick look at some numbers but don't have a whole lot of time tonight to get into details. I might have some time tomorrow to put together something better.

2015/16 Committed Salary assuming LeBron, Love and Smith take their player options and Miller does not or retires: about $55.3 million

Qualifying Offers for TT, Shump and Delly: about $11.6M

Team Option on Mozgov: $4.95M

That puts us at about $72 million for the following 10 guys: Irving, Smith, LeBron, Love, Mozgov, AV, TT, Shump, Delly, Harris

With these 5 guys departing: Miller, Jones, Marion, Perk, Haywood

You'd have to add anything TT, Shump or Delly sign for that is above their qualifying offer amounts to that $72 million number. If we used your $6.5 per number for TT and Shump, that'd put us at $13 million. We may not even pick up the qualifying offer on Delly and may let him hit UFA but let's say we do and he signs the qualifying offer that means our new number would add $2.5M to the $72 million bringing us up to $74.5M.

Spotrac has the 2015 LT threshold estimated at $81 million which is probably a good estimate. So, we could use Haywood's $10 million to trade for players making up to $15 million. Assuming we used up that whole $15 million that'd only put us at $89.5M. I'd assume we'll probably try to stay below the apron ($85M in this case) and only take back about the $10 million we'd be sending out.

We'd then have the Taxpayer MLE($3.376M) and minimum salary slots to fill out any other remaining roster spots.

I just realized I forgot to count the draft pick in there.... which will probably be a little under $1M where we pick so factor that in. Also, keep in mind Miller could add $2.85M to all of this if he picks up his player option(he might).

I tend to think that we'll probably try to get TT and Shump to take their qualifying offers for next year. This allows them to get bigger deals under the new TV money in 2016/17. Of course, they could trade out the bigger money then for guaranteed money now. I think the only way they sign long-term is if they NEED to and if that's the case we have some leverage there.

Our cap situation isn't really that bad and definitely isn't as bad as the numbers you had. Those numbers nearly gave me a heart attack which is why I had to go look them up. I love this stuff...
 

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