Cavaliers Offseason Thread

Thunder were 15-9 after acquiring Kanter (he missed two games). That's in the West, w/o KD for most of it, and right in the thick of a playoff race. He wasn't just piling up stats on a bad team in a losing effort here.

Real Deal said:

Isn't that inflated stats though considering Durant was done, Ibaka was done and even times where Adams was hurt.

He can thank his max contract on those guys. He still balled out but he had an golden opportunity.

Click to expand...

The better question is...

if Tristan was in the same position would he have put up those kind of #s?

We had no Kyrie and Kevin Love and it was still a struggle for him to get double figures in the playoffs.

I think I'd take Kanter over him if we needed a 3rd star. I'd take Tristan as a glue guy/heart of the team kind of player instead of Kanter. He fits what we need now.

A guy that had a PER in the 20s, and is a center, that's 23, is getting the max.

Is he a good defender? No, not really, but his game at least meshes with Ibaka, who is a shot blocking presence.

Just think of him as a Kevin Love quality on that end, that needs to improve obviously though.

The idea that the Thunder should have let him walk is completely asinine.

Kevin Durant couldn't be out the door quicker if they did that.

Rich said:

Thunder were 15-9 after acquiring Kanter (he missed two games). That's in the West, w/o KD for most of it, and right in the thick of a playoff race. He wasn't just piling up stats on a bad team in a losing effort here.

Click to expand...

And the Cavs were 10-6 in the Semis, ECF, and Finals with TT filling in at PF for Love and Kyrie gone most of the games.

So by your Kanter logic, surely TT gets some credit too?

And yes, we both know Westbrook and LBJ did most of the heavy lifting for these periods of time we're discussing

Rich said:

Thunder were 15-9 after acquiring Kanter (he missed two games). That's in the West, w/o KD for most of it, and right in the thick of a playoff race. He wasn't just piling up stats on a bad team in a losing effort here.

Click to expand...

5-9 against playoff teams with kanter

MirORich said:

And the Cavs were 10-6 in the Semis, ECF, and Finals with TT filling in at PF for Love and Kyrie gone most of the games.

So by your Kanter logic, surely TT gets some credit too?

And yes, we both know Westbrook and LBJ did most of the heavy lifting for these periods of time we're discussing

Click to expand...

Not my logic. Monnix said Kanter should be let go because he was putting up stats on a "terrible team." That's not true. He was putting up stats in important games on a decent/good team trying to make the playoffs.

And you know, there is a simple answer to all of this. If Thompson is valued just as much as Kanter then I guess he can go get a max offer sheet from another team just like Kanter.

godfather said:

A guy that had a PER in the 20s, and is a center, that's 23, is getting the max.

Is he a good defender? No, not really, but his game at least meshes with Ibaka, who is a shot blocking presence.

Just think of him as a Kevin Love quality on that end, that needs to improve obviously though.

The idea that the Thunder should have let him walk is completely asinine.

Kevin Durant couldn't be out the door quicker if they did that.

Click to expand...

We've already had a post in here that disproves this by @priceFTW...they still sucked ass defensively with Ibaka on the floor with him.

Just not a fan of the logic of saying "he got 15 and 10" so he deserves the max, when so much more goes into playing basketball and being a high impact player. Then again, I'm not running these teams.

col63onel said:

Guys, all the rumored deals we had with Phoenix were dependent on Phoenix needing to clear cap space to sign LMA. They are currently under the cap even with Tyson Chandler's contract. They have no reason to dump salary.

In fact, given the falls of Dallas and Portland, Phoenix probably feels like they are a playoff team right now. If anything, they'd want to add salary/players.

Click to expand...

there's some speculation that Tucker could be available after they signed Sonny Weems. plus they would get a pick or two in the trade i mentioned. Augustin can still play and would be a solid backup for them...

edit:

Amin Elhassan ‏@AminESPN

Sonny Weems was a pretty good player when he left to go to Europe a few years back....Does his addition mean the end of PJ Tucker in PHX?

Click to expand...

TheDudeAbides said:

5-9 against playoff teams with kanter

Click to expand...

A meaningless stat to bring up. No one is lobbying that they were the '87 Lakers.

BimboColesHair said:

We've already had a post in here that disproves this by @priceFTW...they still sucked ass defensively with Ibaka on the floor with him.

Just not a fan of the logic of saying "he got 15 and 10" so he deserves the max, when so much more goes into playing basketball and being a high impact player.

Click to expand...

It's not even really fair to judge Kanter defensively as a whole yet.

He's never going to be a great defender, that's not his strengths as a player, but this is a guy that's not even really played that much in his career yet.

He spent his first two years in a logjam in Utah, barely even playing at all. You can't develop much, especially some of your weaknesses as a player, without getting much burn time on the floor.

He's basically had just two years, getting meaningful playing time on the court.

With a good coaching staff, there's no way you can write him off, and not at least get him to become an adequate enough defender.

Big men like him often come to the league horrendous on that side of the ball.

It'd be silly, given his offensive talent and skills, to just write him at 23.

26 games, under a brand new system, isn't going to be enough time to work with him on that side of the ball.

Whether he's worth the max or not, is all about market value. He's not in the same category of Marc Gasol, or Lamarcus Aldridge, but guys like him do get max deals in this league. Not a surprise, and if either a max deal, or him walking, OKC made the right choice.

Rich said:

Not my logic. Monnix said Kanter should be let go because he was putting up stats on a "terrible team." That's not true. He was putting up stats in important games on a decent/good team trying to make the playoffs.

And you know, there is a simple answer to all of this. If Thompson is valued just as much as Kanter then I guess he can go get a max offer sheet from another team just like Kanter.

Click to expand...

Why does he need to get it from another team? Since only Portland gave Kanter that offer, does that mean they bid against themselves. After all, OKC had not yet made a public offer.

If Tristan ends up getting a similar offer from the Cavs, then, all factors considered, that's what the Cavs think he's worth.

The whole thing is silly. There's plenty of time and nothing about TT is holding us back in other deals.

How about we simply wait till he gets signed, see the terms, and then discuss the context of value and relative worth?

*L-Train* said:

there's some speculation that Tucker could be available after they signed Sonny Weems. plus they would get a pick or two in the trade i mentioned. Augustin can still play and would be a solid backup for them...

edit:

Click to expand...

Tucker is a useful player and they got flotsam in return. It still makes them worse. Can't see them doing anything other than trying to make the playoffs this season.

*L-Train* said:

there's some speculation that Tucker could be available after they signed Sonny Weems. plus they would get a pick or two in the trade i mentioned. Augustin can still play and would be a solid backup for them...

edit:

Click to expand...

The Suns just let Gerald Green go. I doubt they'd want to ship out Tucker as well.

Has anyone heard anything on Denver as of late??? From what was being reported after the finals it sounded like they would be willing to dump salary, like Gallo, Faried, and Lawson and maybe Chandler.

Lawson is not relevant for us but any of those others would be upgrades to our team. And for those who say Faried would be redundant they need to realize he is one of the best rebounders in game and runs floor really well. I see him as an upgrade to Tristan even though I would still want Tristan.

godfather said:

A meaningless stat to bring up. No one is lobbying that they were the '87 Lakers.


It's not even really fair to judge Kanter defensively as a whole yet.

He's never going to be a great defender, that's not his strengths as a player, but this a guy that's not even really played that much in career yet.

He spent his first two years in a logjam in Utah, barely even playing at all. You can't develop much, especially some of your weaknesses as a player, without getting much burn time on the floor.

He's basically had just two years, getting meaningful playing time on the court.

With a good coaching staff, there's no way you can write him off, and not at least get him to become an adequate enough defender.

Big men like him often come to the league horrendous on that side of the ball.

It'd be silly, given his offensive talent and skills, to just write him at 23.

26 games, under a brand new system, isn't going to be enough time to work with him on that side of the ball.

Whether he's worth the max or not, is all about market value. He's not in the same category of Marc Gasol, or Lamarcus Aldridge, but guys like him do get max deals in this league. Not a surprise, and if either a max deal, or him walking, OKC made the right choice.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm by no means writing the guy off, but if the logic being made is what Kanter could become on defense in order to justify his contract, couldn't the same be said about Tristan and his offense, which is usually the easier of the 2 to get better at as you age? Are you giving up on Tristan on offense at the age of 23? I mean, if you want to use the "26 games under a brand new system" point, couldn't it be said about Tristan that he's had to learn a new system 3 out of the 4 years he's been in the league?

We are still discussing Kanter is a max player but Tristan isn't and Kanter is better than Tristan, right?

BimboColesHair said:

Yeah, I'm by no means writing the guy off, but if the logic being made is what Kanter could become on defense in order to justify his contract, couldn't the same be said about Tristan and his offense, which is usually the easier of the 2 to get better at as you age? Are you giving up on Tristan on offense at the age of 23? I mean, if you want to use the "26 games under a brand new system" point, couldn't it be said about Tristan that he's had to learn a system 3 out of the 4 years he's been in the league?

Click to expand...

Yeah, because he doesn't have any actual skillset on that end to lead me to believe, he'll develop.

He has no outside jumper, he's not a superior post player, with outstanding footwork. His post game I don't is horrible, he's got a nice little running hook shot that's decent. Nothing that leads me to think he'll expand on it though.

He's always going to just be a garbage scorer, and that's fine.

There's nothing in Tristan's offensive arsenal game, that leads me to think its going to improve dramatically. His age isn't something I factor.

I got to see proof, some kind of evidence to suggest otherwise.

Kanter is never going to be a shot blocker, defensive prowless on that side of the ball either.

He doesn't have those skillsets either, so expecting that wouldn't be wise.

But playing defense in the NBA isn't just a skillset you need to have in order to do it.