Star Wars: The Force Awakens teaser #2

I played both on Xbox. Dont pc game much anymore and have enough new games to play so im not sure i want to replay KOTOR 2 when i already played it and wasnt thrilled with it. But ill keep it in the back of my mind for a slow gaming season. Itd probably make me wish they would make a new star wars rpg.

gourimoko said:

We agree 100% on this.. Planescape Torment is probably the Top 2-3 PC RPGs of all time.



I disagree.

KOTOR II had fewer quests, but the dialogue was also much improved. There were fewer environments, but again, the interactions in those environments were far more meaningful. Yes there were more side quests in KOTOR1, but, the gameplay in KOTOR2 was vastly improved. The configurability of your weapons, armor, and party; the fact that you can train various companions to be Jedi, the Master classes, etc... The detail and complexity of the gameplay makes KOTOR2 much more replayable for me.



Lucas himself borrowed from KOTOR and even talked about Revan before. Those stories are, by far, the most important of the EU. Only Thrawn is as well known as Revan and the Exile; and a lot of that has to do with the games he was in (starting with TIE Fighter).

Many might not be familiar with the games, Clone Wars, etc; but they're really missing a huge portion of the EU if that's the case.

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Maybe I just remember it differently, but I'm playing through kotor 2 now and it seems so much smaller than kotor 1 was when i played it last. Definitely though the quality of the writing is much improved, and i give credit to Chris Avellone as I said. He's been creative director to many of the best plotted crpgs in history, there's a definite trend there.

What exactly has Lucas said about Revan? I would absolutely love if they made Rylo Ken into a Revan-esque figure where he makes war on the republic for its own long-term good, and he uses both sides of the force to his benefit. Didnt they even hint at it in the trailers if I remember correctly?

howler1313 said:

Maybe I just remember it differently, but I'm playing through kotor 2 now and it seems so much smaller than kotor 1 was when i played it last. Definitely though the quality of the writing is much improved, and i give credit to Chris Avellone as I said. He's been creative director to many of the best plotted crpgs in history, there's a definite trend there.

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Sq. ft yes, it's smaller, and yes, there are fewer quests. But the dialogue and story are better, as is the gameplay (the ability to really customize your character, team, weapons, etc, is amazing - very much like FO3 vs FO:NV).

howler1313 said:

What exactly has Lucas said about Revan?

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He did a scene for Clone Wars that would've shown Revan and Bane as "ghosts", but apparently nixed it because Bane dies a Sith and they can't come back as "ghosts" and that Revan, although Revan dies a Jedi, apparently he never attained enlightenment (if thats what it's called).

howler1313 said:

I would absolutely love if they made Rylo Ken into a Revan-esque figure where he makes war on the republic for its own long-term good, and he uses both sides of the force to his benefit. Didnt they even hint at it in the trailers if I remember correctly?

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I'd bet Kylo Ren is going to Jacen Solo.. There's lots of rumors about it.

gourimoko said:

I mean that EA and Activision can do the same thing.. They can hire teams to do development for them, or teams can approach them since they have the licensing agreements.

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That's definitely true, I just think they would keep the license in house because the reason they own those studios is because they believe in and trust them.

If a third party dev came along though with a great pitch, I'm sure they probably would consider it.

gourimoko said:

Sq. ft yes, it's smaller, and yes, there are fewer quests. But the dialogue and story are better, as is the gameplay (the ability to really customize your character, team, weapons, etc, is amazing - very much like FO3 vs FO:NV).



He did a scene for Clone Wars that would've shown Revan and Bane as "ghosts", but apparently nixed it because Bane dies a Sith and they can't come back as "ghosts" and that Revan, although Revan dies a Jedi, apparently he never attained enlightenment (if thats what it's called).



I'd bet Kylo Ren is going to Jacen Solo.. There's lots of rumors about it.

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Yeah, Jacen is the really obvious bet. I'd love for them to incorporate the Revan character into the films in some way... Hell, just make a trilogy of Kotor, fans would LOVE it.

howler1313 said:

Yeah, Jacen is the really obvious bet. I'd love for them to incorporate the Revan character into the films in some way... Hell, just make a trilogy of Kotor, fans would LOVE it.

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Totally agree. The Star Wars Anthology should have a Revan movie.. That would be fucking awesome.

Pioneer10 said:

Witcher 2 was such a great game: I'm wary of playing Witcher 3. I barely have enough time for games nowadays and I refuse to play any Dragon Age games after Origins because I don't want to waste my time wondering why is that games so bad compared to it.

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Having played both games, I think Witcher 3 is easily, easily the better game of the two. I will say that Witcher 2 probably had better level design, if only because it wasn't really an open world game. Basically everything else goes in favor of the third game. The writing is better (even if the main storyline isn't quite as interesting). The quest design is fantastic, to the point where a lot of the side quests feel fully fleshed out and interesting (which goes against standard RPG design). The gameplay has improved, and features like potion crafting aren't nearly as obtuse or cumbersome as in the second game. It's one of those rare games where there is a fuck ton of things to do, but you actually want to do them all because you've been sucked into the game's world.

Good call on Dragon Age games after Origins. The second game wasn't awful and had a decent enough story, but it was almost nothing like the first game. It was just so small in comparison, and you can really tell that EA forced them to release it at least six months before it was ready. Don't even bother with Inquisition, especially if you play Witcher 3 first. It just feels so bland and boring.

One would think that being non canon would loosen the screws with Lucas arts. But they are surprisingly protective of there brand. Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, gets vetted by LEC.

Jack: for what it's worth, a great deal of the people who were the decision makers at BW are still there. As for EA, Bioware would have gone under had they not been bought. BW was struggling after tepid sales of Jade Empire. They needed Larger dollars than they had to make ME, and DAO was in Year 7 of development. EA has its problems, but BioWare has made some damn good titles since the acquisition.

And for what it's with, I'm not much of a DAI fan either. Though The Witcher doesn't float my boat either.

Revan is non canon currently. That does not mean that can't change.

As for EA farming out to dev teams: I would be surprised if their deal allows for that. I certainly don't know for sure, I am not privy to that kind of info, but would be shocked if it allowed for that. I'd be equally shocked if EA farmed it out regardless of the contract.

gourimoko said:

Totally agree. The Star Wars Anthology should have a Revan movie.. That would be fucking awesome.

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I've seen stuff saying that kylo ren is inspired by him, so they might be using the new character to tell that story in the movie time period since I'm not sure if they have any desire to explore the old republic in the movies.

AustinCarr said:

One would think that being non canon would loosen the screws with Lucas arts. But they are surprisingly protective of there brand. Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, gets vetted by LEC.

Jack: for what it's worth, a great deal of the people who were the decision makers at BW are still there. As for EA, Bioware would have gone under had they not been bought. BW was struggling after tepid sales of Jade Empire. They needed Larger dollars than they had to make ME, and DAO was in Year 7 of development. EA has its problems, but BioWare has made some damn good titles since the acquisition.

And for what it's with, I'm not much of a DAI fan either. Though The Witcher doesn't float my boat either.

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Well, to be fair, the two founders of BioWare both retired in 2012.

All I'm saying is that there's a pretty clear correlation between the quality of BioWare's games going downhill and their purchase by EA. I think most would agree that their last two truly good games were Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect 2, and both of those were released shortly after the acquisition by EA, with the majority of the development time of Origins being before EA bought the company.

Since Mass Effect 2, we've seen:
Dragon Age II - An unfinished, buggy mess that was nothing like the first game.
Mass Effect 3 - One of the worst endings of all time, and clearly rushed.
The Old Republic - An MMO that I haven't played, but it's gotten lukewarm reviews. (Also a bunch of TOR expansions that I also have not played)
Dragon Age: Inquisition - Basically the definition of mediocre. At least it felt finished, unlike the second game.

And regardless of which decision makers are still at BioWare, we've seen EA do this a dozen times before. Basically every time they've bought a prominent developer like BioWare, that developer has ultimately fallen apart and, eventually, been gutted.

Here's a list:
http://kotaku.com/an-updated-list-of-studios-ea-has-bought-and-then-shut-1689498614

By the way, if you type "companies ru" into google, the first option is "companies ruined by ea."

Ea acquisition was in January of 2008. Mass 2 was entirely developed under ea. That 1 year of DAO was ea. Mass 3 was ea, and say what you will of the ending, that is a fantastic game. The mistake they made was changing the ending after the original leaked.

Da 2 was rushed out, but not for the reasons people believe. It's not a bad story, but an 11 month dev cycle leads to necessary shortcuts.

I won't comment about SWTOR for obvious reasons. You may not personally like DAI (nor I), but it is loved by many and won numerous GOTY awards.

Ray and Greg were great. I miss having g those guys around. They were not a part of he day to day operation, but they layer down a great culture.

Anyhow, sorry we got totally off topic. If you want further discuss, let's bring it to the games forum or PM me.

Jack Brickman said:

Well, to be fair, the two founders of BioWare both retired in 2012.

All I'm saying is that there's a pretty clear correlation between the quality of BioWare's games going downhill and their purchase by EA. I think most would agree that their last two truly good games were Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect 2, and both of those were released shortly after the acquisition by EA, with the majority of the development time of Origins being before EA bought the company.

Since Mass Effect 2, we've seen:
Dragon Age II - An unfinished, buggy mess that was nothing like the first game.
Mass Effect 3 - One of the worst endings of all time, and clearly rushed.
The Old Republic - An MMO that I haven't played, but it's gotten lukewarm reviews. (Also a bunch of TOR expansions that I also have not played)
Dragon Age: Inquisition - Basically the definition of mediocre. At least it felt finished, unlike the second game.

And regardless of which decision makers are still at BioWare, we've seen EA do this a dozen times before. Basically every time they've bought a prominent developer like BioWare, that developer has ultimately fallen apart and, eventually, been gutted.

Here's a list:
http://kotaku.com/an-updated-list-of-studios-ea-has-bought-and-then-shut-1689498614

By the way, if you type "companies ru" into google, the first option is "companies ruined by ea."

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I have many problems with Inquisition, but right up there with the boring world was the complete lack of plot. Its like the whole story was basically a long, drawn out "monster of the week" episode that was meant to set up the 5 min post credit scene.

AustinCarr said:

Ea acquisition was in January of 2008. Mass 2 was entirely developed under ea. That 1 year of DAO was ea. Mass 3 was ea, and say what you will of the ending, that is a fantastic game. The mistake they made was changing the ending after the original leaked.

Da 2 was rushed out, but not for the reasons people believe. It's not a bad story, but an 11 month dev cycle leads to necessary shortcuts.

I won't comment about SWTOR for obvious reasons. You may not personally like DAI (nor I), but it is loved by many and won numerous GOTY awards.

Ray and Greg were great. I miss having g those guys around. They were not a part of he day to day operation, but they layer down a great culture.

Anyhow, sorry we got totally off topic. If you want further discuss, let's bring it to the games forum or PM me.

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I'm fully aware that Mass Effect 2 was developed under EA. But that's kind of the point. It was the last really good game BioWare has made, and it came out five and a half years ago.

As far as Inquisition goes, critics seemed to love it a hell of a lot more than gamers (compare its 85-90 critic score to its 7.4 user score on Metacritic), and I don't put a whole lot of stock in critics these days after numerous fiascos and the obvious conflict of interest that comes with review sites taking tons of advertising money from the companies they are supposed to be providing unbiased reviews for. I also think that Inquisition got inflated review scores because it was a marked improvement on the Dragon Age II disaster. It looked and felt the part of a big budget, next-gen BioWare RPG. It just lacked the soul.

I also think critics have low bars these days. If a AAA game comes out and it isn't an abject disaster, it gets 8 or 9/10.

howler1313 said:

I have many problems with Inquisition, but right up there with the boring world was the complete lack of plot. Its like the whole story was basically a long, drawn out "monster of the week" episode that was meant to set up the 5 min post credit scene.

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I lost interest about midway through Inquisition, but I honestly couldn't tell you what the fuck happened in the twenty or so hours I played. It's just totally forgettable. The only characters I even remember are that dwarf that was in the second game (I think) and the Inquisition chick with the sexy accent, and I can't name either of them. That wouldn't be a problem if the game was like ten years old, but I played it like six months ago!

I can name ten characters in Witcher 3 just off the top of my head. Including ones I haven't interacted with in the game since before my trip to Europe in June.

Next batch of Star Wars rumors:

Andy Serkis' character is named "Supreme Leader Snoke". He is doing motion capture for the role, so seems obvious the character is not human.

One rumor is that he's actually Darth Plageuis. I don't like this rumor.

Another rumor is that he's Darth Bane. Even though this would make less sense on multiple levels, I love Bane's character, so I hope this is true.