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Tristan Thompson

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CalBuckeyeRob said:
Because the Cavs are trying to win titles, and the difference in actual performance between TT and a "serviceable" player may cost you a win in the playoffs and cost you a series as a result. I really don't understand why so many fans are so concerned about Dan Gilbert's net worth if he isn't? Whether they sign TT or let him go, the amount they will be over the cap prevents them from using the savings to make other positions better with the money. I guess Dan Gilbert could buy an island or become Batman http://thefw.com/cost-300-million-batman-facts/.

Alright becoming Batman would be pretty cool, but I am not sure that is his goal and he would still be too far over the cap to add Robin Lopez to fight crime or play center.
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Well apparently Dan Gilbert is concerned about his net worth because he hasn't given TT what he wants and he did, basically, salary dump Mike Miller earlier.
 
Tornicade said:
Mozgov had a defined role and he was good at one thing. His weaknesses in denver were often exploited because he was paired with Kenneth Faried instead of Tristan Thompson.

Mozgov serves a role.. Thompsons is just more important to the teams success
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Yea, THAT'S the guy that helped cover-up Mozgov's weaknesses.
 
CalBuckeyeRob said:
Because the Cavs are trying to win titles, and the difference in actual performance between TT and a "serviceable" player may cost you a win in the playoffs and cost you a series as a result. I really don't understand why so many fans are so concerned about Dan Gilbert's net worth if he isn't? Whether they sign TT or let him go, the amount they will be over the cap prevents them from using the savings to make other positions better with the money. I guess Dan Gilbert could buy an island or become Batman http://thefw.com/cost-300-million-batman-facts/.

Alright becoming Batman would be pretty cool, but I am not sure that is his goal and he would still be too far over the cap to add Robin Lopez to fight crime or play center.
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If Gilbert doesn't care then I'm fine with it, but I suspect he does care. If he does care then he's going to have to cut costs somewhere. Either he tells Griffin to QO Thompson and then lowball him (and probably lose him) or he tries to lowball Mozgov and we probably lose Mozgov. Less critical losses might end up being Delly if Delly gets any kind of offers as a restricted free agent and we refuse to match, or perhaps they arrange to buyout Andy to offset the insane losses from re-signing TT. In any case, I just don't think he will pay the sorts of taxes that we are looking at, and something has got to give. Whatever it is that Griffin/Gilbert choose to get rid of will make us a weaker team, whether it's losing TT or losing someone else.
 
Paul said:
If Gilbert doesn't care then I'm fine with it, but I suspect he does care. If he does care then he's going to have to cut costs somewhere. Either he tells Griffin to QO Thompson and then lowball him (and probably lose him) or he tries to lowball Mozgov and we probably lose Mozgov. Less critical losses might end up being Delly if Delly gets any kind of offers as a restricted free agent and we refuse to match, or perhaps they arrange to buyout Andy to offset the insane losses from re-signing TT. In any case, I just don't think he will pay the sorts of taxes that we are looking at, and something has got to give. Whatever it is that Griffin/Gilbert choose to get rid of will make us a weaker team, whether it's losing TT or losing someone else.
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Why would the team lose Mozgov.
This isnt a sign tristan or mozgov deal.

If the Cavs dont retain Mozgov it will have nothing to do with the TT contract
 
Tornicade said:
Why would the team lose Mozgov.
This isnt a sign tristan or mozgov deal.

If the Cavs dont retain Mozgov it will have nothing to do with the TT contract
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Id like to say this but I cant think of a single solution that supports this that doesn't include trading AV, AND Mozgov or TT taking extreme hometown discounts
 
Tornicade said:
This isnt true. NBAwowy and Nba sportsvu tracking both show Thompson skill as a defender. its the same metric that was used to to validate Green as a defensive player of the year candidate.

Sportsvu is video tracking that is precise to the point they can tell you how many times a player touched the ball. how fast he ran how long he ran. they can determine whether a play is contested and their classification of plays and play types was quantified by coaches and GM who worked with sportsvu to unroll this tracking.

Im sure thougH eventually RAPM will be updated to include these stats but your refuting of the statistic itself is akin to saying a guy shooting well in catch and shoot situations only does so because someone passed him the ball when he was set for a shot.

Clevelands defense saw on Average in the playoffs.
N/A= less than 10 possessions for all 20 games
Transition: 14.8 possessions per game
Thompson:N/A
Mozgov: N/A

Isolation: 8.3 possessions per game
Thompson:1.8 Freq 11.%
Mozgov:1.3 Freq 10.2 %

Ball: 19.1 possessions per game
Thompson:N/A
Mozgov:N/A

Roll Man 8.7 possessions per game
Thompson:1.5 Freq 9.5%
Mozgov:2.1 16.1%

Post up 5.6 possessions per game.
Thompson:1.4 possession Freq 8.5%
Mozgov:NA

Spot up 16.7 possessions per game.
Thompson:2.7 Freq 16.8%
Mozgov:2.4 Freq 18.9%

HandOff 4.3 possessions per game.
Thompson:NA
Mozgov:NA

Cut 7.6 possessions per game.
Thompson:N/A
Mozgov:N/A

Off Screen 6.2 Possessions per game.
Thompson:N/A
Mozgov:N/A

Putbacks 5.8 possessions per game.
Thompson:N/A
Mozgov:N/A

Misc 7.2 Possessions per game.
Thompson:N/A
Mozgov:N/A

While the Regular season is a Much better sample since it includes over 100 possesion
The playoff ratings can tell you who was having a good playoff.

Mozgov isnt gonna pick up the guy posting up. He is taking his guy in isolation and taking the roll man( he is horrible at it)
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Dude, this is gibberish and doesn't address what I said at all. I'm very familiar with SportVU and often use it to show that TT isn't even a very good rebounder and that his perimeter defense is way overrated. Looked at nbawowy but that doesn't have what I am talking about.

Which is stuff like DRtg, where he is 111th in the league for F/C. Or DBPM, where he is 114th. Or DRPM, where he is 120th. These rankings don't even include guards!
 
He can take the qualifying offer, and become an UFA after next year. I really doubt anyone offers him more than 11-13 million. If he wants to take 2-4 million less, because of pride, oh well.
 
NasstyNate said:
Dude, this is gibberish and doesn't address what I said at all. I'm very familiar with SportVU and often use it to show that TT isn't even a very good rebounder and that his perimeter defense is way overrated. Looked at nbawowy but that doesn't have what I am talking about.

Which is stuff like DRtg, where he is 111th in the league for F/C. Or DBPM, where he is 114th. Or DRPM, where he is 120th. These rankings don't even include guards!
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Show me cause Im seeing the opposite.from sportsvu.

111th and 120? that emans your using no filter.and guys playing 20 minutes for the season.

another thing is defense rating is horrible to compare across teams..case in point. Ramon Sessions has a 94 defensive rating. Thompson defensive rating 106 mozgov and Av 105.(basketball reference)

woah a whole point.
.68 PP defending the Roll man.
lets looka t whose worst than Tristan at OPP FG% at the rim. guys who averaged 5 or more defenses a game.
Al Jefferson, Greg ,Monroe, Paul Milsap, Chris Bosh,Jordan Hill, Enes Kanter, G dieng, both Plumlees, Ryan Anderson, Vucevic.

Thompson defends on average 6.5 FGA at the rim at 52%. Meanwhile Thompson is making 5.3 attempts per game at 58%

so its basically a wash.

Thompson also improved as the season went on
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<tr class="tableizer-firstrow"><th>Pre/Post All-Star </th><th>GP </th><th>MIN </th><th>OffRtg </th><th>DefRtg </th><th>NetRtg </th><th>AST% </th><th>AST/TO </th><th>AST Ratio </th><th>OREB% </th><th>DREB% </th><th>REB% </th><th>TO Ratio </th><th>eFG% </th><th>TS% </th><th>USG% </th><th>PACE </th><th>PIE</th></tr>
<tr><td>Pre All-Star </td><td>55 </td><td>28.4 </td><td>108.4 </td><td>105.3 </td><td>3.1 </td><td>2.7 </td><td>0.48 </td><td>5.1 </td><td>15.2 </td><td>19.0 </td><td>17.1 </td><td>10.6 </td><td>53.4 </td><td>56.5 </td><td>14.4 </td><td>94.33 </td><td>9.3</td></tr>
<tr><td>Post All-Star </td><td>27 </td><td>23.4 </td><td>109.5 </td><td>101.7 </td><td>7.8 </td><td>3.0 </td><td>0.44 </td><td>6.2 </td><td>12.6 </td><td>22.7 </td><td>17.6 </td><td>14.1 </td><td>58.7 </td><td>62.4 </td><td>13.0 </td><td>94.15 </td><td>10.7</td></tr>
</table>
[/parsehtml]Your trying to Prove he is horrible . when he isnt. he is improving and will continue to improve.
 
CHIMOCHIS said:
Get rid of this guy
Fuck him and his motherfucking momma

Learn offense and then ask for that type of money
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funny-gifs244.gif
 
Tornicade said:
Show me cause Im seeing the opposite.from sportsvu.

111th and 120? that emans your using no filter.and guys playing 20 minutes for the season.

another thing is defense rating is horrible to compare across teams..case in point. Ramon Sessions has a 94 defensive rating. Thompson defensive rating 106 mozgov and Av 105.(basketball reference)

woah a whole point.
.68 PP defending the Roll man.
lets looka t whose worst than Tristan at OPP FG% at the rim. guys who averaged 5 or more defenses a game.
Al Jefferson, Greg ,Monroe, Paul Milsap, Chris Bosh,Jordan Hill, Enes Kanter, G dieng, both Plumlees, Ryan Anderson, Vucevic.

Thompson defends on average 6.5 FGA at the rim at 52%. Meanwhile Thompson is making 5.3 attempts per game at 58%

so its basically a wash.

Thompson also improved as the season went on
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table.tableizer-table {
border: 1px solid #CCC; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12px;
}
.tableizer-table td {
padding: 4px;
margin: 3px;
border: 1px solid #ccc;
}
.tableizer-table th {
background-color: #104E8B;
color: #FFF;
font-weight: bold;
}
</style><table class="tableizer-table">
<tr class="tableizer-firstrow"><th>Pre/Post All-Star </th><th>GP </th><th>MIN </th><th>OffRtg </th><th>DefRtg </th><th>NetRtg </th><th>AST% </th><th>AST/TO </th><th>AST Ratio </th><th>OREB% </th><th>DREB% </th><th>REB% </th><th>TO Ratio </th><th>eFG% </th><th>TS% </th><th>USG% </th><th>PACE </th><th>PIE</th></tr>
<tr><td>Pre All-Star </td><td>55 </td><td>28.4 </td><td>108.4 </td><td>105.3 </td><td>3.1 </td><td>2.7 </td><td>0.48 </td><td>5.1 </td><td>15.2 </td><td>19.0 </td><td>17.1 </td><td>10.6 </td><td>53.4 </td><td>56.5 </td><td>14.4 </td><td>94.33 </td><td>9.3</td></tr>
<tr><td>Post All-Star </td><td>27 </td><td>23.4 </td><td>109.5 </td><td>101.7 </td><td>7.8 </td><td>3.0 </td><td>0.44 </td><td>6.2 </td><td>12.6 </td><td>22.7 </td><td>17.6 </td><td>14.1 </td><td>58.7 </td><td>62.4 </td><td>13.0 </td><td>94.15 </td><td>10.7</td></tr>
</table>
[/parsehtml]Your trying to Prove he is horrible . when he isnt. he is improving and will continue to improve.
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An important question the Cavs may need to answer as they sort out their free agents is can Tristan Thompson be the starting center for an elite defensive Cavs team? It seems as though he was NOT able to do that throughout most of his career and not for whatever reason in the first half of the season. Is there evidence that basically as things got reshuffled in January that Tristan became a really good defender when he was not before?

Or coming at it from another angle, is Mozgov as vital to our defensive success as we've been led to believe? If the team could play really good defense with Tristan at center, it might help justify a big payday for him.

Did Thompson get better when the defensive system was adjusted? Did Thompson start playing better when Mozgov arrived, perhaps because having that competition brought out the best in Tristan?
 
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