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Farewell Kyle Korver

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Grade the Trade (Korver for Dunleavy, Williams, 2019 1st)

  • A+

    Votes: 91 41.2%

  • A

    Votes: 98 44.3%

  • B

    Votes: 30 13.6%

  • C

    Votes: 1 0.5%

  • D

    Votes: 1 0.5%

  • F

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    221
  • Poll closed .
Sir'Dom Pointer said:
Cavs ran some nice plays for Korver in the 1st half.. much more than they usually do. They even had LEbron screen for him twice, the 2nd time Lebron slipped the screen and post up the smaller player while Korver acted as a Decoy.

2nd half Korver was used strictly as a decoy and he had 0 points other than the 2 FTs.. so yeah :eek:
We also didn't see that lineup with Love at Center in the 2nd half for some odd reason.
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I saw them run a lot of action for Korver in the second half, but the Raptors were chasing him hard, and helping a lot. Opened up the lane a lot for Kyrie and LeBron.
 
D-Wreck said:
I saw them run a lot of action for Korver in the second half, but the Raptors were chasing him hard, and helping a lot. Opened up the lane a lot for Kyrie and LeBron.
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Can't do both if you are on defense, Korver moves incredibly well (and is also tall,easy passing target), you lose him and one of the big3 can find him with their excellent passes or Dereon. You can basically keep defense busy just by running KK around. Now I would try and force JR to do the same at the SAME time. Imagine the chaos the defense would face. Sprinkle in Frye or Love... in the mean time LeBron can think of how he will dunk the ball.
 
Sir'Dom Pointer said:
Cavs ran some nice plays for Korver in the 1st half.. much more than they usually do. They even had LEbron screen for him twice, the 2nd time Lebron slipped the screen and post up the smaller player while Korver acted as a Decoy.

2nd half Korver was used strictly as a decoy and he had 0 points other than the 2 FTs.. so yeah :eek:
We also didn't see that lineup with Love at Center in the 2nd half for some odd reason.
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That Lebron post up was right under the basket too. That's easy points right there. I gotta give Lue credit for his creative play calling.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 
Just Checkin said:
View: https://twitter.com/bballbreakdown/status/861334672667693056


This play and running a baseline screen to force a switch from Korver to Lebron in the post, just phenomenal plays drawn. These were the types of sophisticated plays I always hoped to see on a Cavs team, finally.
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This was the play where the refs took the 3 point basket off the board. Bullshit call in my opinion (of course Hubie said it was an awesome call).

The lesson learned is, any time a team sticks a dagger 3 pointer that your team has no defense for, just run into the screener and get bailed out. I would say we could use this against GS but the refs would NEVER take one of their 3 point shots off the scoreboard if it helped our team.
 
buzzdog said:
This was the play where the refs took the 3 point basket off the board. Bullshit call in my opinion (of course Hubie said it was an awesome call).

The lesson learned is, any time a team sticks a dagger 3 pointer that your team has no defense for, just run into the screener and get bailed out. I would say we could use this against GS but the refs would NEVER take one of their 3 point shots off the scoreboard if it helped our team.
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Yeah should have been a 4 point play.
 
D-Wreck said:
I saw them run a lot of action for Korver in the second half, but the Raptors were chasing him hard, and helping a lot. Opened up the lane a lot for Kyrie and LeBron.
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Agreed putting him on a the weakside action allowed kyrie to get to the elbow with no help for his mini run
 
WAtched the game again yesterday and the Raptors just switched every screen we set for Korver in the 4th.. there were instances that Demar was on Love, Cory Joseph and Norman Powell.
Not posting up Kevin Love in that situation is just no bueno. GSW is going to switch every screen we set for Korver and we need to take advantage of mismatches.
 
Really cool article about the flaws in TS%, Turnover %, and Pace stats with adjustments to the "x * .44%" formula. Also, a cool little bit about Korver at the end. I know we've had this conversation before so I figured I would tag some of you, too.

@gourimoko @TyGuy @David. @godfather @The Wizard of Moz @priceFTW @shoes22

http://fansided.com/2017/05/17/nylon-calculus-possessions-overestimated/

I quoted the intro but there is much more in the article.

In previous posts, I looked at how well players shoot on free throws not overall, but by each attempt in each situation. Players shoot differently on the first of two free throws compared to the second, and those with similar percentages on pairs of free throws can get there in different ways.

What I looked at in this post was not the accuracy on pairs of free throws or fouled three-point attempts, but the totals of each occurrence from NBA.com’s play-by-play data. After weeding out the two and three-free-throw situations from flagrant and clear path free throws, what’s left were legit free throw possessions. They’re important because some advanced-ish stats on NBA.com and Basketball-Reference use a coefficient of 0.44 to estimate free throw possessions instead of using exact totals, and that’s used to estimate all possessions. While that makes it quick and easy to calculate stats (like what I do with drawn foul percentages), the stats themselves are still not totally accurate.
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jking948 said:
Really cool article about the flaws in TS%, Turnover %, and Pace stats with adjustments to the "x * .44%" formula. Also, a cool little bit about Korver at the end. I know we've had this conversation before so I figured I would tag some of you, too.

@gourimoko @TyGuy @David. @godfather @The Wizard of Moz @priceFTW @shoes22

http://fansided.com/2017/05/17/nylon-calculus-possessions-overestimated/

I quoted the intro but there is much more in the article.
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Yes, this has been pointed out before, but there is an article out there where they actually did the real ts if you will and it ended up being very close to how ts is calculated with .44. So the rub is that ts is very good over a large enough sample size. For instance a full season. There was one player that had a difference of 1%, but I can't remember who that was.
 
TyGuy said:
Yes, this has been pointed out before, but there is an article out there where they actually did the real ts if you will and it ended up being very close to how ts is calculated with .44. So the rub is that ts is very good over a large enough sample size. For instance a full season. There was one player that had a difference of 1%, but I can't remember who that was.
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Right, I'm not trying to start a Kyrie debate. All I'm saying is I think this guy's formula - which does show a roughly ~1% variance - is a cool new take on TS%. And he has looked at full seasons.
 
jking948 said:
Right, I'm not trying to start a Kyrie debate. All I'm saying is I think this guy's formula - which does show a roughly ~1% variance - is a cool new take on TS%. And he has looked at full seasons.
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It's good that we can be more accurate, but 1 % to my knowledge was the extreme end. The way they calculate ts is remarkable accurate given a large enough sample size.
 
TyGuy said:
It's good that we can be more accurate, but 1 % to my knowledge was the extreme end. The way they calculate ts is remarkable accurate given a large enough sample size.
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I may have read the article wrong, and if so correct me, but it sounds like 1% was average for a low usage shooter.

To see the dashboard featuring adjusted true shooting percentage, scroll down to the bottom of the turnover percentage section.

True shooting percentage on NBA.com and Basketball-Reference considers the value of not just 3- and 3-point attempts, but free throws as well. It’s calculated as follows:

PTS / (2 * (FGA + (0.44 * FTA))

While estimated free throw possessions for teams were usually only slightly off from their actual totals, players were affected a bit more. The lowest coefficient, minimum 1000 minutes, was from Kyle Korver in 2016 at .204. This was because most players like Korver, low-usage sharpshooters who aren’t drawing a ton of fouls except late in close games, are chosen to shoot technical free throws. Of Korver’s 54 free throw attempts, 25 came from technical fouls with an extra 11 from either and-1s or three-attempt situations.

Below is a look at how using exact free throw possessions instead of estimated ones changes Korver’s true shooting marks since 2004:

korver.jpg


Korver’s changes aren’t too big since he’s almost always been a low-usage scorer, but they’re certainly enough to move up in rankings. In particular, using actual free throw possessions pushed his 2015 season past Tyson Chandler’s 2012 campaign as the highest true shooting percentage for a player who logged over 1,000 minutes.

The largest increase went to John Stockton in 2001, from 61 to 64 percent. From 1997 to 2003, the Jazz had the six-highest technical free throws attempted per game and seven of the top eight, averaging 1.3 to 1.8 per game. Stockton himself was selected for 84 technical free throws in 2001. That tied for the highest from a player with teammate Jeff Hornacek, who attempted just as many in 1998.

As for bigs, lob threats are similar in usage and efficiency as spot-up shooters, but they’re rarely spectacular free throw shooters. They’ll neither pad their point totals on technical free throws nor draw the occasional foul on three-point attempts. Those who saw increases in true shooting had a high portion of their total free throws originating from fouled shot attempts, plus a well above-average amount of and-1s. That’s where Harrell’s outlier-ish season comes in for the Rockets. His true shooting went up 1.75 percentage points, the highest jump from last season, while Jonathon Simmons saw the largest drop, though it was only 0.6 percent. More on both players in a bit.
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So it sounds like the range of correction from the lowest coefficient to highest coefficient for regular use, low usage players was 1%-3%. Again, I could be reading this wrong, but it does look like a noticeable difference compared with the current formula.
 
Good effort on D,but it's time to start hitting these open looks.
 
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