Moneyball Comes to Cleveland

Jack Brickman said:

You do realize that most players take a couple of years to develop, right? Receivers, especially, tend to take at least three seasons.

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It was supposed to be an exercise to assess where we stand from the trade.

Of course, I realize players must develop over time. Yes, especially receivers. But, they will have shown you they certainly belong in the league in year 2--with more fruits to come in year 3 and beyond. What I'm saying is that a few of these guys are at risk of roster cuts for any regular NFL team.

godfather said:

I agreed last year, now the process is just flat out shit.

It was another awful hire.

I don't think we should just clean house with the front office. Time for scouts to go, we clearly have a lot them that couldn't trip themselves over good players.

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Agreed. I even said in the quote: "if we are hot trash next year..." Whelp. here we are.

thedarkness2332 said:

Jesus, people. It was supposed to be an exercise to assess where we stand from the trade.

Of course, I realize players must develop over time. Yes, especially receivers. But, they will have shown you they certainly belong in the league in year 2. What I'm saying is that a few of these guys are at risk of roster cuts for any regular NFL team.

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Will they, though?

Devin Funchess, a guy many regarded as a very good WR prospect, didn't do shit in his second year. He had 23 receptions for 371 yards. He's now starting to break out in year three.

Leonte Carroo, another guy regarded as a top-tier WR prospect, is in his second year and hasn't done shit so far. He has 7 receptions for 69 yards.

Josh Doctson, yet another guy regarded as probably the best WR prospect of last year's draft class, hasn't done shit in his NFL career. He has 8 receptions for 130 yards.

Nelson Agholor? Same story. Didn't do shit in year two (36 for 365), starting to break out in year three.

Adam Thielen? Nonexistent in year two (12 for 144), broke the fuck out in year three.

And those are just the examples I pulled from my dynasty team roster.

Now, do some guys break out earlier? Sure. Some guys break out in year one (the Evans/OBJ/Cooper class really ruined it for everyone else). Some guys break out in year two. But a whole hell of a lot of guys don't break out until years three and four.

This is not to say that Ricardo Louis is definitely going to become a star WR. He's just a so-so prospect, after all, which is why he was drafted in the fourth round. But to write him off after a year and a half, especially given our inconsistent QB situation, is ridiculous. He could easily morph into a solid receiver in the next year or two.

thedarkness2332 said:

Fine, these things are debatable.... although, Louis can't even catch. Kindred, perhaps, might be something.

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Ya, 3rd best safety against the run in the NFL. But is a strikeout when Donnel Pumphrey is on IR and gets the benefit of the doubt.

Jack Brickman said:

Will they, though?

Devin Funchess, a guy many regarded as a very good WR prospect, didn't do shit in his second year. He had 23 receptions for 371 yards. He's now starting to break out in year three.

Leonte Carroo, another guy regarded as a top-tier WR prospect, is in his second year and hasn't done shit so far. He has 7 receptions for 69 yards.

Josh Doctson, yet another guy regarded as probably the best WR prospect of last year's draft class, hasn't done shit in his NFL career. He has 8 receptions for 130 yards.

Nelson Agholor? Same story. Didn't do shit in year two (36 for 365), starting to break out in year three.

Adam Thielen? Nonexistent in year two (12 for 144), broke the fuck out in year three.

And those are just the examples I pulled from my dynasty team roster.

Now, do some guys break out earlier? Sure. Some guys break out in year one (the Evans/OBJ/Cooper class really ruined it for everyone else). Some guys break out in year two. But a whole hell of a lot of guys don't break out until years three and four.

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Is this regarding me placing Louis as a strikeout? Because I'm getting pretty tired of watching the football bang off his chest and hit the turf. If Kenny Britt wasn't on this team, I think Louis would be getting most of the heat.

Your point stands. Coaches probably see the flashes in practice for these guys in year 2, but the point stands. Players take time to develop.

thedarkness2332 said:

Is this regarding me placing Louis as a strikeout? Because I'm getting pretty tired of watching the football bang off his chest and hit the turf. If Kenny Britt wasn't on this team, I think Louis would be getting most of the heat.

Your point stands. Coaches probably see the flashes in practice for these guys in year 2, but the point stands. Players take time to develop.

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I edited my post to address Louis specifically, but yes, my point was that, just because he's having a rough year two (although he's on pace to surpass everyone in my quoted post above in sophomore stats) doesn't mean he won't ever develop. He's not a top-tier prospect, but he is a top-tier athlete at his position and a big target.

Soda said:

Ya, 3rd best safety against the run in the NFL. But is a strikeout when Donnel Pumphrey is on IR and gets the benefit of the doubt.

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Kindred's overall PFF grade right now is 77.7. Not bad, the #32 safety in the NFL. You literally just quoted me saying "Kindred, perhaps, might be something." Point? Highlighting him red initially was a erred-highlight. I basically fonted the whole group, moving quickly at work.

I think we should continue to discuss the players, and focus less on how I initially had them highlighted. I was trying to guess at general board thoughts on a player (based on what I've seen posted), not necessarily my own thoughts entirely. I may have guessed wrong on a few.

thedarkness2332 said:

Kindred's overall PFF grade right now is 77.7. Not bad, the #32 safety in the NFL. You literally just quoted me saying "Kindred, perhaps, might be something." Point? Highlighting him red initially was a erred-highlight. I basically fonted the whole group, moving quickly at work.

I think we should continue to discuss the players, and focus less on how I initially had them highlighted. I was trying to guess at general board thoughts on a player (based on what I've seen posted), not necessarily my own thoughts entirely. I may have guessed wrong on a few.

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It's been a few games. He's still playing well. Then, this. I simply think it's a reach to put him on a lower plane than some of the blue guys you've got there; helps serve a bias. If it's a typo, ok. I'd say he's something, if you're going to call other second year players something for playing well thus far.

Soda said:

It's been a few games. He's still playing well. Then, this. I simply think it's a reach to put him on a lower plane than some of the blue guys you've got there; helps serve a bias. If it's a typo, ok. I'd say he's something, if you're going to call other second year players something for playing well thus far.

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Absolutely. After Pick6's initial post, I realized I had mislabeled a current starter a strikeout and edited the post.

Mr. Orange said:

Jabrill Peppers sucks. The real miss was not taking Watson. Add Watson and Obi Melifonwu and now you got yourself a goddamn stew.

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Obi Melifonwu hasn't played a single game & you've got his & Peppers' careers figured out. Some of these takes...

Mr. Orange said:

Jabrill Peppers sucks. The real miss was not taking Watson. Add Watson and Obi Melifonwu and now you got yourself a goddamn stew.

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Pretty sure this is sarcasm guys

Pauly d should have never been given any say so on this team. Just set up the computer and attach value to picks that’s all. Still can’t believe he was the reason we passed on Wentz.

Soda said:

Some of these takes...

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In fairness, just yesterday after the Garoppolo trade, I told you all I was going to lose my mind.

thedarkness2332 said:

In fairness, just yesterday after the Garoppolo trade, I told you all I was going to lose my mind.

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It's not even your take!

It's more or less the takes thrown around yesterday and today. Pretty sure Twitter lashed out at Njoku because he "could have been Garappolo". What we disagree on looks like peaceful open dialogue compared to some shit.

FrontPageNews said:

Pauly d should have never been given any say so on this team. Just set up the computer and attach value to picks that’s all. Still can’t believe he was the reason we passed on Wentz.

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I'm 90% sure, Hue didn't like him either.