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2012-2013 Indians Red Hot Offseason Thread (Bourn signed post 1940)
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Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Francona hired)
There is absolutely no factual reference in this post.
There is absolutely no factual reference in this post.
Pyro
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Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Francona hired)
Says the guy saying "bullshit this" bullshit that" "bullshit you" "bullshit who?"
Says the guy saying "bullshit this" bullshit that" "bullshit you" "bullshit who?"
Huber.
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Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Francona hired)
So that they can tell people they went out and made a big move without actually making a big move. Just trying to trick the fans into coming back.
So that they can tell people they went out and made a big move without actually making a big move. Just trying to trick the fans into coming back.
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Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Francona hired)
...
Why did I even bother treating you like an actual adult who was willing to have a conversation about this...
...
Why did I even bother treating you like an actual adult who was willing to have a conversation about this...
OhioSlayer
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Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Francona hired)
I love the signing in terms of actually having a proven winner here finally. I think that commands more respect from the players to give it their best than most people realize.
Now, did he win because of an unlimited payroll or can he actually manage? We will really see because there is no greater challenge all things considered than the Tribe.
This is not being a homer, but I do think they will be spending some cash to get the players Terry wants in here. If they didn't agree to that in the interview then he would of never came here.
The problem with this franchise and has been for years is that we spent some money but just on the wrong players and it strapped us a whole. Its time for better decisions.
Should be a very interesting offseason and trading deadline.
Terry Francona is the streak stopper. (Atleast I hope so dammit.)
I love the signing in terms of actually having a proven winner here finally. I think that commands more respect from the players to give it their best than most people realize.
Now, did he win because of an unlimited payroll or can he actually manage? We will really see because there is no greater challenge all things considered than the Tribe.
This is not being a homer, but I do think they will be spending some cash to get the players Terry wants in here. If they didn't agree to that in the interview then he would of never came here.
The problem with this franchise and has been for years is that we spent some money but just on the wrong players and it strapped us a whole. Its time for better decisions.
Should be a very interesting offseason and trading deadline.
Terry Francona is the streak stopper. (Atleast I hope so dammit.)
MirORich
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Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Francona hired)
SO then over under on the Indians payroll for next year?
$60 mill
$70 mill
$80 mill
I'll be an optimist an hope they up it 72 million.
Subtract the contracts of Hafner, Grady, Hernandez/Carmona, Lowe, Kotchman, and Slowey from last years payroll of 62 million and your at about 28.5 million. That leaves $44 million to cover the arbitration raises to guys like Choo, Perez, Masterson, the other Perez, Brantley and then hopefully some actual worthwhile FA additions.
Choo should definitely be traded as he's a Boras guy. Next year should be about righting the ship and setting the tone for the Francona era. Trade Choo to add at least one upper level prospect.
Perez you could trade in the right deal as there are a few legit closer options on the roster.
Ughg. It's not going to be easy but they need to add a few younger talents via trade, make 1-2 legit FA signings, be healthy, hope Francona is a significant strategical and leadership upgrade over Acta, and Kipnis, Santana, Cabrera, and Chisenhall all need to continue to improve.
Oh yeah, and the whole pitching issue......
SO then over under on the Indians payroll for next year?
$60 mill
$70 mill
$80 mill
I'll be an optimist an hope they up it 72 million.
Subtract the contracts of Hafner, Grady, Hernandez/Carmona, Lowe, Kotchman, and Slowey from last years payroll of 62 million and your at about 28.5 million. That leaves $44 million to cover the arbitration raises to guys like Choo, Perez, Masterson, the other Perez, Brantley and then hopefully some actual worthwhile FA additions.
Choo should definitely be traded as he's a Boras guy. Next year should be about righting the ship and setting the tone for the Francona era. Trade Choo to add at least one upper level prospect.
Perez you could trade in the right deal as there are a few legit closer options on the roster.
Ughg. It's not going to be easy but they need to add a few younger talents via trade, make 1-2 legit FA signings, be healthy, hope Francona is a significant strategical and leadership upgrade over Acta, and Kipnis, Santana, Cabrera, and Chisenhall all need to continue to improve.
Oh yeah, and the whole pitching issue......
Pyro
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Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Francona hired)
I was, but then you start jumping down my throat.
It's okay. You've clearly made your mind up and you booked passage on the S.S. Dolanhaters
I was, but then you start jumping down my throat.
It's okay. You've clearly made your mind up and you booked passage on the S.S. Dolanhaters
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Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Francona hired)
You tried to pass off an opinion as fact and I called you out on it, and proceeded to act like a child rather than refute my conclusions.
So I'll ask you again: What does paying Francona a lot of money for a manager have to do with opening the check book for players? Where is the correlation between Francona and the players?
You tried to pass off an opinion as fact and I called you out on it, and proceeded to act like a child rather than refute my conclusions.
So I'll ask you again: What does paying Francona a lot of money for a manager have to do with opening the check book for players? Where is the correlation between Francona and the players?
MirORich
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Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Francona hired)
Why commit big dollars to a proven, in demand, and in his prime manager if you're not going to raise the payroll and make more aggressive player acquisition moves. There is no way Dolan thinks Francona alone will raise and stabilize attendance. If it were going to be business as usual for Dolan for the next 2-3 years, you hire Sandy for 25% of what Francona will cost
Why commit big dollars to a proven, in demand, and in his prime manager if you're not going to raise the payroll and make more aggressive player acquisition moves. There is no way Dolan thinks Francona alone will raise and stabilize attendance. If it were going to be business as usual for Dolan for the next 2-3 years, you hire Sandy for 25% of what Francona will cost
Pyro
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Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Francona hired)
THIS. THIS. ONE MILLION TIMES THIS.
THIS. THIS. ONE MILLION TIMES THIS.
MirORich
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Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Francona hired)
Regarding a higher payroll, Dolan seems to go in waves. He inherited(bought) a winning club in 2000, took the payroll to 77 million to 91 million in 2001 and still had a 78 mill payroll in 2002 for a team that underperformed and was eventually blown up. Then as we acquired prospects he bottomed things out in 2004. After a few year and the thought that we could win again(or the realization that he had to invest some to get the fans to come back) he raised it back up to 78 million in 2008 and 81 million in 2009. Bottomed out again the past 3 years at 61, 49, and 62.
Hopefully the signing of Francona signals that he will at least make an effort for 3-4 to raise the payroll and if Francona can take that talent and make them into winners, maintain a higher payroll base.
Regarding a higher payroll, Dolan seems to go in waves. He inherited(bought) a winning club in 2000, took the payroll to 77 million to 91 million in 2001 and still had a 78 mill payroll in 2002 for a team that underperformed and was eventually blown up. Then as we acquired prospects he bottomed things out in 2004. After a few year and the thought that we could win again(or the realization that he had to invest some to get the fans to come back) he raised it back up to 78 million in 2008 and 81 million in 2009. Bottomed out again the past 3 years at 61, 49, and 62.
Hopefully the signing of Francona signals that he will at least make an effort for 3-4 to raise the payroll and if Francona can take that talent and make them into winners, maintain a higher payroll base.
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Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Francona hired)
I'm just not so sure about that. I will willingly admit that this is something out of the ordinary from the Dolans to make a move like this, but then again Francona was basically the perfect storm for the Indians with prior relationships and whatnot.
I just don't think that this move signals that they are more willing to spend for players one way or the other. They have never showed a willingness to ever be major players in the free agent market no matter what. Hopefully this season finally opened their eyes to the problem and they are willing to make a significant investment without a meaningful profit. But that seems to be counter to everything they have ever done in their time owning and running the Indians.
I'm just not so sure about that. I will willingly admit that this is something out of the ordinary from the Dolans to make a move like this, but then again Francona was basically the perfect storm for the Indians with prior relationships and whatnot.
I just don't think that this move signals that they are more willing to spend for players one way or the other. They have never showed a willingness to ever be major players in the free agent market no matter what. Hopefully this season finally opened their eyes to the problem and they are willing to make a significant investment without a meaningful profit. But that seems to be counter to everything they have ever done in their time owning and running the Indians.
JMcCurry08
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Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Francona hired)
I say the payroll will be at $75 million going into Opening Day....just a predicition
I say the payroll will be at $75 million going into Opening Day....just a predicition