2012-2013 Indians Red Hot Offseason Thread (Bourn signed post 1940)

[MirORich]

Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Francona hired)

None of us are naive enough to think the Indians are going to pony up for a top end 15+ million a year guy.

Where they need to be willing to change, as Lastoria points out in this IPI article http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/blog/tribe-happenings-francona-brings-leadership,-credibility-32737, is in going after some guys in the 2-3 year contract, 6-12 million a year range. We'll call it the Willingham argument.

If the payroll does end up being $75 million, that's bigger than it looks. Its obviously not a top end payroll but it woud represent $45 million worth of raises to Abitration guys and probably 2-3 significant FA signing in that 6-10 million a year range. Certainly, no guarantee of winning or of the money even being spent wisely, but something that is owed to the fans in light of all the recent bs(resigning Grady, Lowe, Kotchman, Damon, etc.)

 

[macbdog]

Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Francona hired)

SGM:

- Thats too much for Cabrera. he got caught once and you would be paying him based on a steroid-fueled career year. He either sees a drop in production back to his previous norms, or he keeps juicing, hits, but stands to get snagged again because he was dumb enough to get caught the first time. It also would be a PR nightmare to hand a known cheat a multiyear deal. Then again, Tribe fans loved the Indians teams of the 90s and they were apparently pretty dirty. Who knows on that end. I would welcome him on a one year deal.

- Huge risk with McCarthy. Maybe you gamble like that, not sure, but he is one arm I just don't want to be throwing a big deal at. That said, I think he goes for more money/shorter term, and finds it. A better idea? Edwin Jackson. Still gets overlooked, but at least he stays healthy.

Youkilis? I stay away from that with a 10-foot pole. He raked in US Cellular, and looked putrid elsewhere. He crapped out down the stretch, too, as the ChiSox followed. He had his last hurrah, now the shitty body that had scouts writing him off catches up. If he is not getting guaranteed offers, then I would consider it, but that is about it.

I like the Ervin Santana idea. Someone has to take Hernandez's place as the talented-but-who-knows guy of the rotation. I would be down with him and Edwin Jackson.

 

[macbdog]

Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Francona hired)

So that they can tell people they went out and made a big move without actually making a big move. Just trying to trick the fans into coming back.

yes, you are right- Shapiro and Antonetti were cackling madly at the Francona hire and how they were duping fans into coming back. In no way were they primarily influenced by the previous professional relationship and personal friendship with this front office and a guy who was a part of building the original Shapiro front office and system.

I know Pyro speaks out his ass and I understand the frustration with him but you can spare the moronic return hyperbole, even if it warms cmstophe's cackles (and yes, you have cackles). It is a situation that works for all parties involved, possibly even Sandy if the right job doesn't come calling. Francona buys into what these guys are trying to do and yes, like it or not, the manager and FO need to be on the same page if you are trying to develop a young team. Rings do hold weight with young players and will command a level of respect. And yes, that means something for the development process. He is no miracle worker and he won't turn shit into gold, this FO has a TON f work to do with the rotation, but I think Francona is a step in the right direction.

 

[Chris]

Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Francona hired)

yes, you are right- Shapiro and Antonetti were cackling madly at the Francona hire and how they were duping fans into coming back. In no way were they primarily influenced by the previous professional relationship and personal friendship with this front office and a guy who was a part of building the original Shapiro front office and system.

I know Pyro speaks out his ass and I understand the frustration with him but you can spare the moronic return hyperbole, even if it warms cmstophe's cackles (and yes, you have cackles). It is a situation that works for all parties involved, possibly even Sandy if the right job doesn't come calling. Francona buys into what these guys are trying to do and yes, like it or not, the manager and FO need to be on the same page if you are trying to develop a young team. Rings do hold weight with young players and will command a level of respect. And yes, that means something for the development process. He is no miracle worker and he won't turn shit into gold, this FO has a TON f work to do with the rotation, but I think Francona is a step in the right direction.

You name dropped me but I honestly have no idea why or what you were trying to say.

 

[Pyro]

Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Francona hired)

He thinks you cackle whenever I make a non-serious post.

 

[Chris]

Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Francona hired)

I don't think any of your posts are serious.

Hence why I do laugh when a reputable member like Amherst argues with you for 15 pages.

 

[Pyro]

Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Francona hired)

I take my Indians baseball very srs.

 

[Huber.]

Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Francona hired)

yes, you are right- Shapiro and Antonetti were cackling madly at the Francona hire and how they were duping fans into coming back. In no way were they primarily influenced by the previous professional relationship and personal friendship with this front office and a guy who was a part of building the original Shapiro front office and system.

I know Pyro speaks out his ass and I understand the frustration with him but you can spare the moronic return hyperbole, even if it warms cmstophe's cackles (and yes, you have cackles). It is a situation that works for all parties involved, possibly even Sandy if the right job doesn't come calling. Francona buys into what these guys are trying to do and yes, like it or not, the manager and FO need to be on the same page if you are trying to develop a young team. Rings do hold weight with young players and will command a level of respect. And yes, that means something for the development process. He is no miracle worker and he won't turn shit into gold, this FO has a TON f work to do with the rotation, but I think Francona is a step in the right direction.

I stand behind my statement that this will be their biggest offseason move that they will advertise next season in the "what if?" commercials. Then when fighting to stay out of last place next August they will say "Well, we went out and got Tito because no free agents were available but things didn't work out but we still have some great players here."

 

[Pyro]

Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Francona hired)

Francona looks pumped. What a difference from Acta, who just looked happy to have a job. :chuckles:

 

[BlueSeats626]

Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Francona hired)

The man-love between Francona and Shapiro/Antonetti is a bit concerning.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Francona hired)

I'm now, more than ever, believing that Francona doesn't mean an increased commitment from the Dolans.

Still a good hire. Now Antonetti needs to not fuck it up like he usually does.

 

[OhioSlayer]

Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Francona hired)

Tito has got to be thinking that 1918-2004 was a long time and I ended the curse. 1948 to present ain't shit.

 

[MJA1080]

Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Francona hired)

Tito has got to be thinking that 1918-2004 was a long time and I ended the curse. 1948 to present ain't shit.

Little does he know, he has to overcome the curse of a whole city... not just 1 team.

 

[JMcCurry08]

Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Francona hired)

Free agents I'd like for us to take a look at this offseason

DHs-Delmon Young
OFs-Michael Bourn, Angel Pagan, Ryan Ludwick, Cody Ross, Melky Cabrera, BJ Upton,
1B-James Loney
SP-Liriano, Edwin Jackson, Zambrano

 

[MoFlo]

Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Francona hired)

Buster Olney‏@Buster_ESPN

Terry Francona has out clauses in his contract in the event that the people he works for are dismissed.

Interesting..