2012 Draft

[chrisrich91]

Probasketballdraft ‏@Probballdraft
According to a source the Cleveland workout was very competitive. Players went hard but doesn't sound like any one prospect wowed the Cavs.



Probasketballdraft ‏@Probballdraft
Cleveland Cavaliers working out Tony Wroten, Scott Machado, Royce White, Mike Scott, Robbie Hummel, & Draymond Green today. #Cavs



Really wanted Tony Wroten at 24. daytripper is a sad panda tonight.

Not sure why the Cavs would let on that they were wowed by Wroten even if they were. So someone else could snatch him up before us?

It's all a dance.

 

[metalman213]

There is a reason Barnes' FG% hovered around 42% in both his years at UNC. It isn't because he just liked to settle for difficult shots or because he was put in tough situations by his teammates. It is because he has difficulty making the game easier on himself because his first step (ie: athleticism) is severely lacking compared to a 3 like MKG. If Barnes is as great a shooter as some on here pretend (he isn't) and if his ability to get to the paint and to the hoop isn't too far behind MKG, he would have been the kind of dominating player that everyone (myself included) expected at UNC.

He couldn't and therefore wasn't. It seems the further we get away from the actual college basketball season, the more people are forgetting about Barnes' deficiencies (and MKG's explosiveness)... and the kind of hype he was getting pre-UNC is back in full force.

I don't care what the tests say or how he was timed in a controlled setting in an empty gym... The guy struggled to beat defenders in college because he isn't very explosive, has a pretty slow first step and moves very mechanically (not smooth, lots of wasted motion).

Any comparisons in overall athleticism to MKG doesn't pass the smell test. I watched both guys on many occasions, even going against one another in a game... MKG is a far better natural athlete. It was completely obvious.

I agree with many of these points, and would take MKG over Barnes by far, its just I feel like people are underestimating barnes. Some people have even said they will stop following the team if they take barnes. Its not the end of the world imo. Barnes is still a good prospect, and would be a very good fit on this team.

 

[adam81king]

Rudy Gobert with a 7'8.9 wingspan and 7'0 without shoes

Insane standing reach

I was PRAYING this kid came out this year, because he could've been had with one of our 2nd round picks. As he stands now, he'll be a Lottery pick in 2013 for sure.

 

[winner0274]

What does he do besides be tall?

 

[SteelSmack]

What does he do besides be tall?

Wear sandals with socks?

 

[RedBlackAttack]

I agree with many of these points, and would take MKG over Barnes by far, its just I feel like people are underestimating barnes. Some people have even said they will stop following the team if they take barnes. Its not the end of the world imo. Barnes is still a good prospect, and would be a very good fit on this team.

I would never go that far. The only thing that could possibly deter me from rooting for the Cavaliers is if we ever took 6 back. That is really the only move that I draw the line for.

If we end up drafting Barnes, I will have to bite my tongue and hope for the best... But, I think it would be a blunder and that it would stunt the growth of what could be one of the best young teams in the NBA if we play our cards right. All of the pieces are there for this thing to be turned around fast, but drafting what I consider a slightly above average NBA 3 with the No. 4 overall pick would be a step in the wrong direction. There is always the chance that I am wrong and that he is a future All-Star... But I just don't see it.

Since we've been talking about it recently, let's delve into the Kentucky vs. UNC game this past season. You never want to draw too much from one game and highlights never tell the whole story, but let's take a look at the resources available to us...


December 3, 2011
North Carolina @ Kentucky

Final score: Kentucky 73, North Carolina 72

Michael Kidd-Gilchrist - 33 minutes, 17 points (6-10 FG, 0-1 3PT, 5-7 FT), 11 rebounds (4 offensive), 1 assist, 1 steal, 1 block, 1 turnover

Harrison Barnes - 24 minutes, 14 points (5-12 FG, 4-5 3PT, 0-0 FT), 2 rebounds (1 offensive), 0 assists, 0 steals, 1 block, 1 turnover


This was MKG's 8th game as a player on the college level. I thought that he thoroughly outplayed Barnes on both ends of the floor. Almost all of Barnes' points came on long 3s and he showed no ability to get around the defense and to the basket. MKG, on the other hand, was very efficient, getting both to the basket and to the free throw line. He controlled the boards and showed some incredible explosiveness.

Highlights:

[video=youtube;t9mefHjfo30]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9mefHjfo30[/video]

[video=youtube;KEOriwcJkQA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEOriwcJkQA[/video]


Full game:

[video=youtube;TJSWkAZul_E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJSWkAZul_E[/video]

 

[TwoPistols]

I watched that full UK-UNC game the other day with intent on watching the MKG and Barnes matchup. Honestly, it's a wash. They both do what they do well. You can't credit MKG for getting to the rim and free throw line and then knock Barnes for hitting 3s and pull-up jumpers. Those are their games. That's what they do best. To be fair too, most of MKG's points came in transition. Barnes could still get his shot off anytime he wanted, and he still will be able to at the next level. But again, that is what they do. It's just a matter of preference. Do the Cavs want the guy that gets rebounds, hustle points, and gets out in transition or do they want the guy that can bury wide open 3s and hit pull-ups from all over the court?

 

[Ernie McCracken]

I agree with many of these points, and would take MKG over Barnes by far, its just I feel like people are underestimating barnes. Some people have even said they will stop following the team if they take barnes. Its not the end of the world imo. Barnes is still a good prospect, and would be a very good fit on this team.

The people who claim they would stop following the team are probably either exaggerating, or are Duke fans. I wouldnt take those comments seriously. Even though many people (including me) don't think barnes will be very good, there is always the chance we might be wrong.

I would like for you to expound on why you think barnes is underestimated, and why you think he's still a good prospect, though. For the most part (IMO) the barnes "haters" have a lot more substance to their argument. He was very inconsistent throughout his career, and usually bad without a good pg playing with him. He didnt get into the lane well, didnt pass well, didnt defend well or make plays on that end like steals or blocks, and he wasn't that great at his supposed strength (~36% is a solid 3 pt %, but it is far from outstanding).

For the most part, it seems like the pro-barnes folks seem to point to his scoring first. He was a prolific scorer, but not in an efficient manner. After that it resorts back to measurables and potential, which he did not improve upon or tap into in his two years in college, and which could be argued as misleading (he doesnt play fast or athletic, as the stats indicate). And, keep in mind that he was supposed to be an advanced, polished scorer coming out of high school, not an unfinished product. he was expected to hit the ground running, not be a guy who developed a lot over time.

And I don't mean to completely hate on barnes. I think he would fill a nice role on this team, but for the role he seems most likely to fill (11-14 ppg scorer) he shouldnt be drafted in the top ten, imo. I would be happy to take him in the early teens, but anything earlier than that would mean to me that we passed up on more dynamic players. People talk about him being like deng, but they have little in common as players, because deng is physical, assertive, and a very good defender. To me, barnes' best case would be something like rashard lewis, and his best case martell webster, with him most likely falling midway between the two.

 

[czvo]

That UNC game is where I decided MKG was the clear #2 prospect in this draft. Just the way he relentlessly attacked the glass, got up in Barnes' face on D, and never tried to force anything on offense... he was so damn impressive in that game. This is the guy. The Cavs NEED to get him.

 

[KyrieFan]

The biggest lie in this entire draft is that Barnes is a "deadly long range shooter". He shot 35.8% this year, including 26% in the tournament, and this was with two 1st conference bigs in the post that commanded double teams.

Unless we are going to shoot ourselves in the foot and set screens for this guy to get open, give me Gilly a thousand times over who will at least be capable of something when being guarded man to man.

 

[I'mWithDan]

So, still no news on the secret prospect hmmm

If I had to take a guess, I would bet it is Henson.

- High Character
- Good Motor
- Great in transition
- Plus Defender
- Great Rebounder

He seems to fit the profile of the Cavs FO.

And I just saw Wuck's post......

From Sam Amick:

John Henson will be working out with the Cavs:

 

[ajz20]

Grizzlies Pre-Draft Workouts: Day 1 | video | THE OFFICIAL SITE OF THE MEMPHIS GRIZZLIES

Grilzzlies Draft workout with front office insight. Wish the Cavs were doing this1

Here is a video of Henson working out
http://www.nba.com/kings/video/kings-pre-draft-workout-john-henson-61112

 

[KyrieFan]

Henson, now that is a pick I wouldn't mind. He's anthony davis light, and it amazes me that some scouts have him going out of lotto. He fills out a little and he's going to be a defensive problem. And he really surprised me this year when he started developing a little bit of a reliable 15 footer.

 

[RedBlackAttack]

I watched that full UK-UNC game the other day with intent on watching the MKG and Barnes matchup. Honestly, it's a wash. They both do what they do well. You can't credit MKG for getting to the rim and free throw line and then knock Barnes for hitting 3s and pull-up jumpers. Those are their games. That's what they do best. To be fair too, most of MKG's points came in transition. Barnes could still get his shot off anytime he wanted, and he still will be able to at the next level. But again, that is what they do. It's just a matter of preference. Do the Cavs want the guy that gets rebounds, hustle points, and gets out in transition or do they want the guy that can bury wide open 3s and hit pull-ups from all over the court?

To me, the only way this game can be classified "a wash" is if you value a jumpshot over and above every other facet of the game.

MKG showed in this game superior athleticism (all inclusive, from first step in the halfcourt to getting in transition), ball-handling, passing, rebounding, defense, efficiency, motor and aggressiveness.

I thought MKG was the clear all-around superior player and even his jumper didn't look bad and he made his free throws at a very nice clip. There are very few deficiencies in MKG's game, and this was just the 6th time that he took the floor out of high school.

 

[metalman213]

I would like for you to expound on why you think barnes is underestimated, and why you think he's still a good prospect, though. For the most part (IMO) the barnes "haters" have a lot more substance to their argument. He was very inconsistent throughout his career, and usually bad without a good pg playing with him. He didnt get into the lane well, didnt pass well, didnt defend well or make plays on that end like steals or blocks, and he wasn't that great at his supposed strength (~36% is a solid 3 pt %, but it is far from outstanding).

First of all, he has a GREAT point guard to play with him. He does not get into the lane well, sure, but he does it more than people on here give him credit for. Besides, he is more efficient shooting off the dribble, thats one of his best strengths and I think he has a lot of confidence so he resorts to that a lot. He is very good at creating space off the dribble for his shot. For the three point shot, well some people (me included) think Brad Beal will be a fantastic three point shooter, despite shooting 34% from three. Barnes mechanics are very good, and I think he can improve his shot even more with experience and be a knock down shooter. You are correct about his passing / playmaking, but he makes up for it with other parts of his offensive game. As for not defending well, I will just have to disagree. He was a good to very good defender. Not elite like MKG, but still a good defender. Barnes also has more steals per 40 (and per 40 pace adjusted). He has fewer blocks, but playing with a huge frontcourt could have something to do with it, and thats not too much of a concern to me.

For the most part, it seems like the pro-barnes folks seem to point to his scoring first. He was a prolific scorer, but not in an efficient manner. After that it resorts back to measurables and potential, which he did not improve upon or tap into in his two years in college, and which could be argued as misleading (he doesnt play fast or athletic, as the stats indicate). And, keep in mind that he was supposed to be an advanced, polished scorer coming out of high school, not an unfinished product. he was expected to hit the ground running, not be a guy who developed a lot over time.

I mean 44% is not really too inefficient. carmelo anthony, regarded as one of the best scorers in the nba, shot 45% in college. Beal is at 44%. Miller 44%. He has obviously improved since his freshman year, when he shot 42%, so i would expect him to continue improving.

And I don't mean to completely hate on barnes. I think he would fill a nice role on this team, but for the role he seems most likely to fill (11-14 ppg scorer) he shouldnt be drafted in the top ten, imo. I would be happy to take him in the early teens, but anything earlier than that would mean to me that we passed up on more dynamic players. People talk about him being like deng, but they have little in common as players, because deng is physical, assertive, and a very good defender. To me, barnes' best case would be something like rashard lewis, and his best case martell webster, with him most likely falling midway between the two.

First, barnes is a good defender, and Im not sure where you are getting that he is not. Maybe not on Deng's level, but he is good on that end. What players would you take ahead of him? I would take Davis, MKG, Beal, Drummond, and then Barnes. So I don't think he would necessarily be a good pick depending who is left, but I wont be outraged.