2012 Finals !!

[Rich]

Im willing to bet everything in my possession that if Wade, James, Bosh & Co. were suiting up in Wine and Gold ready to take down OKC at the Q tonight all those issues you and others have above would dry up like river basins in Africa. The whole time James was in Cleveland we wanted nothing more than elite free agents to sign here. In fact there was a time where the idea was to do the exact same thing Miami did and sign 2 max guys. All this good vs evil, more than basketball stuff seems real disingenuous.

The Cavs can straight out tank for a high lottery pick, but thats ok for the game, but 3 free agents, who happen to be friends who talk/think about, plan to play together equals bad for the game. Real self serving fellas.

Stop traffic, captain objective has just had a lightbulb go on. Fans of sports teams would rather see their team win than lose. Theyd also rather see the best players play on their team instead of another team. I think ive finally figured out your problem. You think fans are SUPPOSED to be unbiased and objective when rooting for their team. Youve been mistaken. Maybe competitive sports isnt for you, where there are winners and losers and fans who are rooting for one team to succeed and the other to fail. Being a fan of a team is naturally subjective.

 

[jay_em]

I understand exactly what you mean, but I'm not totally buying that the Heat took a shortcut. I know what you mean when you say that, by the way they assembled the team and all that, but they've been through the trials and tribulations necessary to win. They had to experience the Finals lost last year, and they still fought there way past Boston with Bosh out and came back from 3-2. I mean, as much as everyone hates them, they have still shown alot of heart and deserve some credit.

Short cut may or may not be the right wording. Probably just semantics. But you're correct still have had to work to get where they are and no doubt will have to work to close OKC out. They built there team a different way than others but not that different. Wade/UD/Rio/Cole/Joel are all Heat bred players. The rest are basically free agent signees (although Bosh and James were "technically" acquired thru trades, but i know).

The Cavs team that made the Finals took a short cut too. They don't get there without Hughes, Yell and DJ. Did that detract from what they did or how the fans viewed them? Not at all. You build your team the best way you can. If you can and have the $$$ then why chance drafting kids that may not ever reach their potential. If you have tradeable assets why not use them to aqcuire veteran players or top flight draft picks. There is no right and wrong way here. Its only successful vs unsuccessful!!!

 

[GreasySpread36]

To me if you win you've built "the right way" regardless of how you do it. The Draft and free agency, along with trades, are simply tools a team can use to build its roster. None of these methods are morally superior or inferior to the others.

 

[caf]

To me if you win you've built "the right way" regardless of how you do it. The Draft and free agency, along with trades, are simply tools a team can use to build its roster. None of these methods are morally superior or inferior to the others.

So you're okay with collusion then?

 

[jay_em]

Stop traffic, captain objective has just had a lightbulb go on. Fans of sports teams would rather see their team win than lose. Theyd also rather see the best players play on their team instead of another team. I think ive finally figured out your problem. You think fans are SUPPOSED to be unbiased and objective when rooting for their team. Youve been mistaken. Maybe competitive sports isnt for you, where there are winners and losers and fans who are rooting for one team to succeed and the other to fail. Being a fan of a team is naturally subjective.

Fans are humans with brains. They aren't mindless zombies or animals acting on instinct. You can CHOSE to be unbiased and objective and still root like crap for your team. All im saying is call it what it is....not some crusade to purify the NBA game. Thats crap and everyone knows it.

You dont dislike the Heat b/c they did it the wrong way or took shortcuts....you dislike the Heat b/c it aint you.
You dont want OKC to win because they're some small market team with angelic humble players (i mean you just got down rooting for the Celtics who are polar opposites) ....you dont want LeBron to win!!!

I have nooooooooo problem with that second statements. Just keep it real is all im saying.

 

[GreasySpread36]

So you're okay with collusion then?

Between players? I don't have a problem with it. Why would I? Free agency is a right the players have. If they want to play in a certain city with certain other players- as long as teams don't get involved and violate tampering rules- how is that wrong?

If Pat Riley and Mickey Arison were dealing with the players in 2008 and 2009 than yeah, I would have a problem with that. But if LBJ, Wade and Bosh get together and say, "Hey, we should join forces," than no, I wouldn't have a problem with that. It's their right and their prerogative.

 

[caf]

Between players? I don't have a problem with it. Why would I? Free agency is a right the players have. If they want to play in a certain city with certain other players- as long as teams don't get involved and violate tampering rules- how is that wrong?

If Pat Riley and Mickey Arison were dealing with the players in 2008 and 2009 than yeah, I would have a problem with that. But if LBJ, Wade and Bosh get together and say, "Hey, we should join forces," than no, I wouldn't have a problem with that. It's their right and their prerogative.

1) Colluding is illegal. Those players were under contract while they were colluding. They represented their teams and organization. Being an employee in the front office, or on the court... it makes no difference.

2) The front office did get involved. While nothing is proven all the fingers point in the same direction. Bosh, James, Wade and Arison all roomed together during the Olympics. Shortly after the Heat dumped salary like crazy. Who dumps all their assets when they have a top 5 player on their team? No one who wants to keep their job would.

Just because you choose to ignore that the Miami Heat colluded using Wade as their pawn for it doesn't mean it didn't happen

 

[th1]

So you're okay with collusion then?

so you are ok with tanking years after years ?

 

[SauDogg]

so you are ok with tanking years after years ?

Considering it's the only way we'll ever be legit contenders we have to be ok with it. What other alternative do we have?

 

[jay_em]

Between players? I don't have a problem with it. Why would I? Free agency is a right the players have. If they want to play in a certain city with certain other players- as long as teams don't get involved and violate tampering rules- how is that wrong?

Players talk all the time. Stern even said there was no issue with players talking.

If Pat Riley and Mickey Arison were dealing with the players in 2008 and 2009 than yeah, I would have a problem with that. But if LBJ, Wade and Bosh get together and say, "Hey, we should join forces," than no, I wouldn't have a problem with that. It's their right and their prerogative.

If Riley and Arison were working with the James and Bosh then its tampering and very much illegal, but if Riley and Co. find out about the players desire to play together and then put a plan together its not collusion or tampering..."insider trading" maybe?

 

[Rondo]

Whether its colluding or tanking to win, both can be deemed immoral. But who cares. People only care about being successful and it doesn't matter how you get there. So taking the white-knight side of things that things are done the "right" way and "wrong" way is just silly. People do whatever it takes to win and sometimes taking the moral path is the illogical and stupid path. Just the way things are. If we had a chance to sign two max contract superstars to play with Kyrie tomorrow, we would do it in a heartbeat, regardless of the moral or immoral process it takes for the lone and simple fact that we want to be successful and win.

 

[GreasySpread36]

If Riley and Arison were working with the players then its tampering and very much illegal, but if Riley and Co. find out about the players desire to play together and then put a plan together its not collusion or tampering..."insider trading" maybe?

Teams clear the decks in preparation for big free-agent years all the time. Orlando did it more than a decade ago when they signed Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady and made a run at Tim Duncan. The Knicks did the same thing the Heat did, only it didn't work out for them.

Framing this as some kind of moral issue is what's silly to me. I'm a realpolitik guy when it comes to sports. Whatever it takes. I'm old enough to remember people whining about Bernie Kosar "colluding" to be taken by the Browns in the 1985 supplemental draft. But **** it, we got our guy.

 

[PosterTime]

Im willing to bet everything in my possession that if Wade, James, Bosh & Co. were suiting up in Wine and Gold ready to take down OKC at the Q tonight all those issues you and others have above would dry up like river basins in Africa. The whole time James was in Cleveland we wanted nothing more than elite free agents to sign here. In fact there was a time where the idea was to do the exact same thing Miami did and sign 2 max guys. All this good vs evil, more than basketball stuff seems real disingenuous.

The Cavs can straight out tank for a high lottery pick, but thats ok for the game, but 3 free agents, who happen to be friends who talk/think about, plan to play together equals bad for the game. Real self serving fellas.

You're such an obvious troll.

They wouldn't all be suiting up in Cleveland, now would they? LeBron never went out of his way to recruit his "friends" to play together on the Cavaliers. Instead, Riley and the big 3 colluded illegally to get together and shortcut their way to the finals.

You're ignoring the fact that the Miami players had a celebration before they even stepped foot on a court together, that they claimed multiple championships, and that they act like complete fucking doushebags every moment. Flopping, whistle begging, ref-cock sucking little pussies.

Go ahead and celebrate LeBron's championship tonight. You know you want to.

My point was not really about the way they came together. Instead, it is about the way that the Miami Heat act and carry themselves. From the bullshit calls to the arrogant press conferences......I just cannot stand anything about that fucking team. Fuck every single one of them.

 

[czvo]

The ironic part of all this is that the Thunder had a chance to acquire Tyson Chandler, and they backed out of the deal after he failed his physical. Of course, they'd have Jeff Green instead of James Harden, but for just winning this series, Chandler > Harden.


EDIT: They'd still have that pick in 09 though, and it would probably be around 7-8. In which case it looks like they could have taken Steph Curry. Based on these finals, would you want Steph Curry and Tyson Chandler or James Harden and Kendrick Perkins? Yeah...

 

[RikSmits]

I wonder if the Thunder can come out with a nothing to lose attitude and LBJ cramps up when the ring is within his grasp. Maybe I'm clutching at straws here but I still have hope that if they somehow take this one, the Thunder can pull it off.