2013 NFL Draft thread

[Triplethreat]

The question is would the Browns FO rather have Jarvis Jones and a 2nd round pick (#46 overall) which could have netting someone like Jamar Taylor, Vance McDonald, DJ Swearinger or would they prefer just Mingo. Obviously, they thought Mingo alone was better than Jarvis Jones and Jamar Taylor. The threat was that New Orleans could have taken Jarvis Jones ahead of us in that scenario. They obviously didn't in hindsight but they certainly could have.

The Browns like Mingo. He's super athletic, smart and coachable. Plus, one point that is not being talked about, he would be the ideal OLB for when we play teams with mobile QBs. As Mingo said himself, his numbers were reduced at LSU because he was asked to contain the QB instead of attack. If the NFL starts moving more towards that RG3 style QB, Mingo is an ideal fit for any defense. If he's playing against statues like Dalton, Flacco and an aging Rothlisberger, he's going to be rushing full bore.

My line of thinking is that Jones Spinal Stenosis was a big red flag for us. That and his very sub-par 40 time, if you remember what Horton said he wants in a defense "Big guys who can run, little guys who can hit". Well hell yes Mingo can definitely run. McFadden can also hit. Stuck to a strict plan and we'll see how it works out.

 

[Soda]

My line of thinking is that Jones Spinal Stenosis was a big red flag for us. That and his very sub-par 40 time, if you remember what Horton said he wants in a defense "Big guys who can run, little guys who can hit". Well hell yes Mingo can definitely run. McFadden can also hit. Stuck to a strict plan and we'll see how it works out.

I agree with the second thing you said wholeheartedly, I differ with you a bit on the bolded. I think there is a little bit more to it than that. How often are fans complaining about how they need to stop trying to take two okay guys instead of one great player? I think quite a bit; I think Julio Jones trade. Maybe Banner and Lombardi thought like us and just felt like the team needed a stud rather than two pretty solid guys. We've been seeing how things go when you shoot for more "guys" and leave the studs to everyone else.. The Browns end up picking 3, 6, 5, etc. every year.

 

[bob2the2nd]

wait is this a serious conversation why the browns didnt take a 2nd round and 7th round pick to trade from 6th to 16??? like serious serious? not like laugh at the person that thought it was a good idea serious?

okay so just starting at the draft chart (Which hasnt been updated since the rookies now have set salaries, and thus top picks are worth more), the draft chart shows the 6th overall pick being worth 1600 points, and the 16th pick being worth 1000 points. meaning 600 points needs to be made up. the rams 2nd round pick was worth 440... to get a pick worth another 160 points you need a low/mid 3rd.... not quite the 7th round pick the rams were offering. so basically the rams would have needed to offer the first, second, and third round picks for the browns to begin to consider it. thats why it would have been stupid for the browns to take it.

 

[Beyond the Arc]

Any post-hoc discussion of a trade down is moot. Banner and crew had their sights on Mingo from the jump, and all trades were conditioned upon Mingo not being there. When he was, they took him. We'll find out over the next few years if that was the right choice.

 

[Phills14]

I like Mingo. I liked him early in this process, then cooled on him, then in the last week I thought he'd be a very good pick for us. I was in favor of trading down to get a 2nd rounder if we could get Mingo. I think the Jets at 9 would have grabbed him if he was there so that really soured the idea of trading down for me.

The thing that gets me is someone like Tony Grossi. He railed against past regimes for trading down. He didn't like the Julio Jones trade, he goes on air saying, don't out thinking yourself, pick the best player on the board and forget about getting the 2nd tier talent so you can get another pick later. Yet, after this draft, he rails against the Browns for doing EXACTLY what he said he wanted them to do over the past few years. Fans do the same thing.

The Mingo pick was in the range he should have been. It was not a reach. Is he a boom or bust guy? I think he's a boom guy I'm not sure about the bust. His floor IMO, If he's used correctly, will be an average, serviceable player. His ceiling is a lights out guy who gets to the QB and is all over the field. I'd say he's got less risk than a Jarvis Jones, who has nothing elite about him (moves, speed, size) only college production. Will it transfer to the NFL? I'm not so sure. Add in the spinal issues on top of that, and I'm REALLY glad we didn't go that route.

 

[Soda]

I like Mingo. I liked him early in this process, then cooled on him, then in the last week I thought he'd be a very good pick for us. I was in favor of trading down to get a 2nd rounder if we could get Mingo. I think the Jets at 9 would have grabbed him if he was there so that really soured the idea of trading down for me.

The thing that gets me is someone like Tony Grossi. He railed against past regimes for trading down. He didn't like the Julio Jones trade, he goes on air saying, don't out thinking yourself, pick the best player on the board and forget about getting the 2nd tier talent so you can get another pick later. Yet, after this draft, he rails against the Browns for doing EXACTLY what he said he wanted them to do over the past few years. Fans do the same thing.

The Mingo pick was in the range he should have been. It was not a reach. Is he a boom or bust guy? I think he's a boom guy I'm not sure about the bust. His floor IMO, If he's used correctly, will be an average, serviceable player. His ceiling is a lights out guy who gets to the QB and is all over the field. I'd say he's got less risk than a Jarvis Jones, who has nothing elite about him (moves, speed, size) only college production. Will it transfer to the NFL? I'm not so sure. Add in the spinal issues on top of that, and I'm REALLY glad we didn't go that route.

I really prefer Mingo's skill set for the Browns. Sure, Jarvis Jones is a pass-rusher, but from watching the film (not just highlights) I see Mingo living in the backfield. He doesn't just get to the passer in the pocket. He also will run down backs trying to turn the corner, plays a good contain game outside the tackle box, hits the QB legally with force and can tip balls near the line of scrimmage. The Browns need more than a guy who can just rush the passer, he needs to be able to break up plays regularly. I did see Barkevious doing these things in his film.

 

[Coyote850]

Mingo can be a game changer if he's used properly. I think Jarvis Jones will succeed because the Steelers know how to use its players to their strengths. Thats something the Browns have failed to do for the most part in the last 14 years.

 

[mcfly]

Mingo can be a game changer if he's used properly. I think Jarvis Jones will succeed because the Steelers know how to use its players to their strengths. Thats something the Browns have failed to do for the most part in the last 14 years.

+1 for plug and play systems. It is why Pittsburgh is consistently competitive, it is why Baltimore will recover quickly despite the loss of key veterans, and it is why we field a garbage team year in and year out. Systems make acquiring players, whether through the draft or free agency, much more straight forward.

 

[Soda]

+1 for plug and play systems. It is why Pittsburgh is consistently competitive, it is why Baltimore will recover quickly despite the loss of key veterans, and it is why we field a garbage team year in and year out. Systems make acquiring players, whether through the draft or free agency, much more straight forward.

No it is not. It is a byproduct of the reason we field a garbage team in Cleveland year-in and year-out. Constant turnover prevents any resemblance of an identifiable system.. On both sides of the ball. You're absolutely correct when you say it is why Pittsburgh and Baltimore are consistently good, but saying a lack of a system is the Browns' problem is like saying that your penis doesn't do its job at making kids when you got a vasectomy.

 

[mcfly]

No it is not. It is a byproduct of the reason we field a garbage team in Cleveland year-in and year-out. Constant turnover prevents any resemblance of an identifiable system.. On both sides of the ball. You're absolutely correct when you say it is why Pittsburgh and Baltimore are consistently good, but saying a lack of a system is the Browns' problem is like saying that your penis doesn't do its job at making kids when you got a vasectomy.

An organization with constant turnover is an organization without a system. Penises on the brain there chief?

 

[Soda]

An organization with constant turnover is an organization without a system. Penises on the brain there chief?

I wasn't thinking multiple, but hey, who am I to tell you what to think about. :chuckles:

I don't think you read any other part of my post, though. I was agreeing with you, but the problem stems from the top, not the system in place on the field.

 

[mcfly]

I wasn't thinking multiple, but hey, who am I to tell you what to think about. :chuckles:

I don't think you read any other part of my post, though. I was agreeing with you, but the problem stems from the top, not the system in place on the field.

No, I read it all, but what you see on the field is only part of the system.

 

[Beyond the Arc]

Really, you're both right... and you're both wrong.

Every organization and regime has its own system, the problem is lack of continuity. The sustained success of the Steelers and Ravens and Patriots and Packers is not found in their systems because systems change and evolve. Executives and coaches and coordinators and players come and go and philosophies change as they do so.

These franchises succeed over the long term because they have continuity and institutional memory. When you aren't spending time building an organization from the ground up you can focus on the 10% of things that make a good organization great, rather than the 90% that make a dysfunctional organization functional. This is where the Browns have failed, repeatedly. We tear down the entire structure and rebuild it bi- or tri-annually.

This is why I'm encouraged so far with the work that Haslam, Banner, and Lombardi have done. There are certainly systems that have changed and are still in need of changing, both on the field and off, but thus far they've kept the basic structures in place. They didn't immediately fire and replace the entire scouting staff, for example. They let them do their work and will be replacing them as contracts expire, but they didn't hamstring themselves by trying to hire a new scouting staff 3 months before the draft. They've left the roster mostly intact, so that the players can focus on learning and installing the new offensive and defensive schemes, rather than doing that PLUS forging new relationships and understanding with players they've never met. They kept Chris Tabor, who had the special teams humming last year and will hopefully be able to continue that work w/ minimal disturbance.

Don't get me wrong, there's still a LOT of change going on, but I think we've seen that they understand the value of continuity and are working to build the kind of institutional memory that sustains the success of the better franchises in the league.

 

[Sly]

So they've bounced the senior national scout and more are supposedly on the way. Seems they also took little or no part in the draft. Guess they didn't trust them after all. Helps make a little more sense of why they pushed those picks forward.

 

[Soda]

So they've bounced the senior national scout and more are supposedly on the way. Seems they also took little or no part in the draft. Guess they didn't trust them after all. Helps make a little more sense of why they pushed those picks forward.

That guy was with the Browns for EIGHT years prior to getting canned. Man, not only was he a dynamite scout, his great work got him promoted! So, from 2005, this guy lead the Browns' scouting department to.........

I'm not losing sleep over it. I also suspect that you're right about why they may have pushed the picks.