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2014 Cleveland Browns

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Funny how things changed after 1 miserable start by a rookie QB who happens to be 22 years old. One week ago, everyone would have said they had faith in Pettine, Farmer, and Haslam getting the right people in the organization. Nope, now all of the sudden the culture sucks, the front office sucks, owner is a criminal, defense is terrible, offense is terrible, trainers are terrible, waterboys terrible.

You can't reverse several mistakes over the period of several years in one season. For all the negative comments about how the franchise has been run, the only criticism about this season is that they caved to the mystique of a marketing gimmick instead of the most NFL ready rookie QB available. And I've been saying that since June, regardless of the niceties.
 
If Johnny dominates this Sunday.. This place will do a complete 180.[emoji23]

Anyone who seriously expected this kid to come out dominating lacks the understanding of reality.

I like JFF. I think he can succeed here. He likely won't live up to the hype, not many can, but he can win here.

Boobie mentioned something about Johnny that I hate.. He struggles to read defenses. I hope he can learn to do so, because if he can it puts his chances of succeeding A LOT higher.
 
Good followup on ESPN today about Bernie's comments with some input from Tim Couch.
Tim Couch lived the struggles of a Cleveland Browns post-1999 quarterback.

Tuesday, he read the critical words of Bernie Kosar about the team's approach to the position (in an interview on WTAM-1100) and nodded.

"I thought everything he said was right," Couch said. "It's been a long 15 years of watching the same thing repeat itself over and over. The biggest that frustrates me is the lack of commitment and loyalty to let a coach see it out and a quarterback play it out."

Couch likes both quarterbacks on the team, roots for the Browns and speaks as an interested observer who has been through it.

He joined the league as the No. 1 overall pick in the 1999 draft. He struggled with the team the first two seasons, but improved in his third. By his fourth season he started 14 games and led the Browns to the playoffs.

But he broke his leg in the 2002 season finale and watched as Kelly Holcomb threw for more than 400 yards in a playoff loss to Pittsburgh. The next season, he and Holcomb -- who remain friends -- were yo-yoed back and forth until Couch was released when the team signed Jeff Garcia. It was one of many experiments that didn't work.

He now follows the Browns closely from his home in Kentucky, and attended the game in Atlanta as a fan.

"You're never great every week," he said. "This is just repeating the same process of the last 15 years, like Bernie said. Whether it was me, Kelly or on and on and on, the finger keeps being pointed at the quarterback.

"It's the team. Build a team and then worry about the quarterback."

Couch even chuckled in a here-we-go-again way at the criticism Manziel has received after his debut.

"Johnny played one game, and granted it was awful, but most people are writing the kid off already," he said.

Couch said the Browns would have been better off committing to Brian Hoyer for the entire season after the win over Atlanta.

"Every quarterback has ups and downs, no matter who it is," he said. "It's a tough league."

He said commiting to Hoyer after the Falcons would have put to bed all the talk and speculation. Without commitment, the pressure can be suffocating, something he said he was unaware of when he played but he understands now that he looks back at his playing days.

"I think Brian is a pretty good player," Couch said. "A solid player. Given the right situation I think he could be a really good player. Put him on a team with a defense around him and solid running game and weapons on the outside, I think he can be a good player.

"I was totally on board with Hoyer. He made such good decisions for so long. He was accurate. All that changed when the pressure mounted on him. He didn't play well the last month, and you can't get away from that.

"But I think it was the result of other influences creeping in on him."

Couch said he felt the same influences.

"Everyone expects a certain amount from you," he said. "It weighs on you when you don't have success. Then doubts creep in. You start to question yourself. And you can't do that at that level.

"Everybody says block it out, but that's just not reality. …It's almost like every throw I made I felt like I had to prove to everyone ‘This is why I was the No. 1 pick.' You don't realize it until you look back.

"I think that's kind of what got Brian a little bit, to be honest. He felt like he was playing for his job every week. If he missed an open wide receiver or threw an interception it got worse. That kind of pressure can eat away at you slowly over time."

Couch said that there was no way Manziel could live up to half his hype, and that his spot in his first start was as difficult as Hoyer's.

"I completely expected him to struggle," Couch said, "not to the degree that he did, but to struggle. I thought there might be flashes of plays, where you think, 'Whoa, unbelieveable.' That he'd extend a play and hit a guy. None of that happened.

"But I still definitely expected him to struggle. The situation, the playoffs, Cincinnati's defense is good, they do things to confuse you. It was tough to watch him and see how frustrated he was. He had only been used to success, but this was a different game."

Couch added he likes coach Mike Pettine a great deal, but he believes Pettine and many of the team's veterans think Hoyer gives the team the best chance to win. He also thinks there was front office influence to play Manziel, though that is his opinion and not from any inside source. (Pettine said "absolutely not" when asked if there was any pressure from ownership or the business side.)

Now, Couch said, the rest of the season is about evaluating Manziel.

"It's never going to consistently work when you're just plugging in guys," Couch said. "You're never going to have consistent success."
 
Wow. Never thought I'd go to Tim Couch as the voice of reason.

Cool to see he roots for the Browns even though fans were pricks to him.

This owner needs to stick it out with this regime for 4-5 years at the very least. If there's zero improvement at that point, you blow it up. But in year 1 we're having our best season wins-wise in 7 years. Yeah, the schedule was easy but fuck it. This team is talented on both sides of the ball and will compete when healthy. As it is right now they are decimated with injuries and they are still lacking a quarterback.

Get a QB and plug him in. Maybe that isn't in this coming draft, or maybe it actually is Manziel, I don't care who it is. Just find one and plug him in here and let's have a consistent FO/coaching staff for a few years and see what happens.
 
Admittedly something I read in the Johnny thread set me off...

Love the Couch article. The Couch era seems a bit brighter now than it probably was but I still like him. Man he had no help.
 
I would take a re-do and go with rookie Couch right now.
I'd take a rookie Couch right now over any quarterback we've had since 1999. But then again, that doesn't say much, given the end result of each quarterback tenure.
 
The Browns fan I identify with the most this year is Tim fucking Couch of all people. Nailed it from the intro to the conclusion. The only thing he left out is that hundreds of thousands of douchebags helped drive the pressure train all year. Fans played a part, but 95% of this is on the franchise for creating a time bomb.
 
Holy shit, Couch nailed it. Great article.
 
Honestly I feel once the Browns lost to the Colts they knew it was over with the loss of players due to injuries. How Couch and Kosar bring up something I never thought about.., After all the FO changes and Owners how can we not just settle In and run things out till the end. I Hoyer was never yanked in the first place during the game this would never have taken place. Now do I think Hoyer is a SB QB no but let Johnny start next year. Three games is not going to tell you what you have. I applaud the Browns for having a decent year but man the FO and ownership mostly never gets it.
 
I don't think the Browns necessarily did anything wrong by trying to replace a fluttering QB in Hoyer. He had played very well and was most certainly a part of a winning formula for the first two-thirds of the season...

That said, Couch did nail it. I give the fans a lot of flack for having no patience or understanding, but I guess it's bred from inept ownership not displaying any type of winning personality. That must change. It won't happen overnight, but it's a change the organization AND fans need to endure. That does take being good for long enough to bury old habits.
 
Take it with a grain of salt but John Telich said on 92.3 he's heard "whispers" that if Pettine doesn't win one of the last two games, he could be gone
 
Take it with a grain of salt but John Telich said on 92.3 he's heard "whispers" that if Pettine doesn't win one of the last two games, he could be gone

No...just...no.
 
Take it with a grain of salt but John Telich said on 92.3 he's heard "whispers" that if Pettine doesn't win one of the last two games, he could be gone

Taken with a bunch of it; however, that rumor is incredulous...

If Pettine is fired after one season, I give up.
 
Taken with a bunch of it; however, that rumor is incredulous...

If Pettine is fired after one season, I give up.

Especially a seven win season, which is pretty good for a rookie coach whose best skill player missed the first ten games and wasn't able to practice with the team. Also, the injuries really devastated us this year. Losing Mack basically submarined the entire season because the run game fell apart and our QB wasn't good enough to compensate.
 

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