2019 Around the MLB

[AZ_]

Its obvious that the Padres draw better than the Indians do early in the season. Nicer weather and SD doesn’t have two other Sports franchise to compete with.
Let’s bring this topic back up in August.

They lost 96 games last year and outdrew Cleveland by hundreds of thousands.

 

[JDailey23]

They lost 96 games last year and outdrew Cleveland by hundreds of thousands.

Okay, so they draw better when sucking. Again, fans have to make a decision. When July/August hit they had to decide between Cavs Title hopes, which was legit, and the Browns, which will always be #1 and even more so now that we have a legit team.
I agree, it has a lot to do with fans just not showing up, period.

 

[AZ_]

Okay, so they draw better when sucking. Again, fans have to make a decision. When July/August hit they had to decide between Cavs Title hopes, which was legit, and the Browns, which will always be #1 and even more so now that we have a legit team.
I agree, it has a lot to do with fans just not showing up, period.

Im not saying I disagree, I’m saying this is why Manny Machado is a Padre and Francisco Lindor will wear another uniform in 2022.

It’s just that simple, IMO.

 

[Andrew Scheid]

Shitty fans don’t support good teams, it’s really that simple.

I don’t need to engage with your standard ad hominem nonsense much further than this.

*ad hominem- directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.*

I never once attacked your character; I critiqued your rhetoric as a "schtick" because of the logic being dispersed, not anything fundamental about you as a person. Obviously, I don't know you, so why would I attack your character?

When you say "shitty fans" I'm curious as to how many people need to attend each game on average in order for ownership not to have cut payroll during a window of contention?

30K? 32k? If you're going to call fans "shitty" than be specific as to what type of attendance figure would elevate them to a respectable status in your eyes.

 

[JDailey23]

Im not saying I disagree, I’m saying this is why Manny Machado is a Padre and Francisco Lindor will wear another uniform in 2022.

It’s just that simple, IMO.

Agreed. BUT, if Dolan wanted to he could throw the money at him if he wanted to keep him. But, he isn’t the type to spend over his budget. That’s why Edwin was signed and then traded two years later.

 

[AZ_]

*ad hominem- directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.*

I never once attacked your character; I critiqued your rhetoric as a "schtick" because of the logic being dispersed, not anything fundamental about you as a person. Obviously, I don't know you, so why would I attack your character?

When you say "shitty fans" I'm curious as to how many people need to attend each game on average in order for ownership not to have cut payroll during a window of contention?

30K? 32k? If you're going to call fans "shitty" than be specific as to what type of attendance figure would elevate them to a respectable status in your eyes.

Who said anything about me? Your ad honinems about Dolan speak for themselves.

You’ve turned yourself into wasting breath attacking the man you hate instead of the obvious realization that this fan base doesn’t support the team.

And we can talk about the smaller cut of revenues the small market teams get from the league wide deals, but it won’t matter.

You’re dug in, I’m certainly not going to change your mind with facts. I’ll happily discuss this with people who are more rational and choose to focus less on Dolan’s PB and mayo sandwiches.

 

[AZ_]

Agreed. BUT, if Dolan wanted to he could throw the money at him if he wanted to keep him. But, he isn’t the type to spend over his budget. That’s why Edwin was signed and then traded two years later.

I could buy a Maserati today, but it means I would put myself into debt for no good reason.

The team already loses money as a business, and spending gross money on individual players doesn’t appear to be a winning strategy in baseball.

 

[Ohio]

This is fast becoming an example of fans saying absurd shit to avoid acknowleding the obvious, being amongst a generally terrible fan base who irrationally refuses to support a team.

The obvious is that ownership will let a dynasty walk out the door regardless of attendance. Saw it live, sorry.

And the fans mocking the “enjoy It” line is quickly becoming annoying too.

Nah fuck that, he's a piece of shit for saying that.

 

[AZ_]

The obvious is that ownership will let a dynasty walk out the door regardless of attendance. Saw it live, sorry.


Nah fuck that, he's a piece of shit for saying that.

The fans are shit for not supporting a World Series team, they deserve it.

The dynasty walks out the door because Tuesday is too cold to support the team.

Simply wouldn’t happen for the Browns, who have the benefit of non guaranteed deals and a capped limit that equalizes the rest of the league.

It’s fascinating to watch the difference in tones by fans who don’t understand the economic realities of a team which is better in every way, yet completely less supported by the same city.

 

[sportscoach]

Your schtick is really tiresome. The fanbase in Cleveland isn't ideal--a mixture of economics, Downtown Cleveland's small population, and yes, relative apathy compared to the Browns makes it far from perfect--but whose fault is it that they negotiated a shitty TV deal? Tampa, with way less fans, has an annual income of $80 million in revenue from their local TV deal. The Indians have been top 5 in TV ratings for the past few seasons, and are getting half of that in annual revenue from their contract with Fox Sports. Is it the fans fault that Silver Spoon Dolan negotiated an awful deal? With the deal set to expire in a few seasons, you'd think they could invest the $ from the new deal--which given the precedent from recent deals will be quite lucrative-- into the payroll during a window of contention. Nope, instead we get cries of losing money from Dolan, even though the league is more profitable than ever, and the Indians, like every other team, refuse to open their books. Where is the ASG $ going? What about the revenue sharing from the league's new TV deal and MGM cash? According to your logic, that's not worth inquiring about. Just blame attendance for everything and pray that Paul Dolan doesn't have to eat peanut butter and mayo sandwiches because those terrible fans won't reciprocate his generosity.

No matter which was you look at it, on average the Indians had over 10K in seats open on a nightly basis. I get how people feel since Dolan probably did profit off of last season, but no one is in business to go into the red so be logical as well. He didn't make the money he should have since this team was one of the best in baseball last season and yet the fans didn't come out like they honestly should have. I get tickets aren't cheap anymore, blah, blah, blah, but how can you expect any business, no matter how good the product, if the customers aren't coming in? It is just like this restaurant has amazing food and no one shows up for whatever reason or another, you expect them to be able to keep and pay the best staff in the world?

Don't say he hasn't opened his pocket book. Every single season he has lately opened up his pocket book. We went and got Miller, Bruce, Crisp, EE etc when we needed a player. I didn't actually like getting Donaldson, but hey they did make a move to try and get better at the end of the day and thats what counts. People are mad we didn't make enough moves this off season, but they also forget, we went and got a lot younger, and got more guys with years of control. I don't like losing Gomes, Yandy, either and neither did most of us, but we went and got Bauers (top 100 prospect), Johnson and Jefry (two guys long term who will be everyday guys probably for us), Luplow and last season picked up guys like Mercado. The FO has been making the best moves they can at the end of the day. People need to honestly either support the team, or shut it and find another team to follow since the Indians actually have been one of most well ran organizations in baseball for awhile, just the fans aren't willing to see that since they aren't winning it all.

 

[Andrew Scheid]

Who said anything about me? Your ad honinems about Dolan speak for themselves.

You’ve turned yourself into wasting breath attacking the man you hate instead of the obvious realization that this fan base doesn’t support the team.

And we can talk about the smaller cut of revenues the small market teams get from the league wide deals, but it won’t matter.

You’re dug in, I’m certainly not going to change your mind with facts. I’ll happily discuss this with people who are more rational and choose to focus less on Dolan’s PB and mayo sandwiches.

The man I hate? You call the fans "shitty" who hates who here?

The line about peanut butter and mayo sandwiches was an attempt at comic hyperbole; it wasn't intended as documented fact.

He's the one telling Castrovince about his hardship flying Southwest Airlines, so the hyperbole was rooted in satirizing his attempt at framing his travels as reflective of an economic hardship, which is a joke considering his net worth and the amount of actual financial dire straits that people in this country face every day.

You didn't answer my question about what it would take, in terms of attendance, for Tribe fans to be considered less than shitty.

I won't hold my breath for a response.

 

[Andrew Scheid]

I could buy a Maserati today, but it means I would put myself into debt for no good reason.

The team already loses money as a business, and spending gross money on individual players doesn’t appear to be a winning strategy in baseball.

How do you know they're losing money when they refuse to open their books??

 

[AZ_]

The man I hate? You call the fans "shitty" who hates who here?

The line about peanut butter and mayo sandwiches was an attempt at comic hyperbole; it wasn't intended as documented fact.

He's the one telling Castrovince about his hardship flying Southwest Airlines, so the hyperbole was rooted in satirizing his attempt at framing his travels as reflective of an economic hardship, which is a joke considering his net worth and the amount of actual financial dire straits that people in this country face every day.

You didn't answer my question about what it would take, in terms of attendance, for Tribe fans to be considered less than shitty.

I won't hold my breath for a response.

I’m literally arguing that it would take attendance to improve the revenue of the team.

Like, this is basic economics.

You have a product. If your product is drawing 25 percent capacity for their events (45-50 on nice days), you’re not going to be investing much in that product.


Can whine and complain all you want, but that’s just how business works.

 

[sportscoach]

The obvious is that ownership will let a dynasty walk out the door regardless of attendance. Saw it live, sorry.


Nah fuck that, he's a piece of shit for saying that.

Not going to lie, I am really siding with AZ_ and if anyone knows our history, I hate to agree on anything with him period. I sincerely mean the hate word since we do not get along at all, but at the end of the day he is right. It would be hard for us to afford keeping a Lindor at market price with the fans in the stands cause of the economics of a small market team, but would the ownership have done so already with very good attendance, I don't have a doubt in my mind and Lindor may have dropped his price a bit to stay in Cleveland, but when Cleveland can only offer 15 mil and his market price is 25, they are way too far apart. If we could offer 20ish and he came back at 25, it could have been possible to work something out. The attendance and other factors like that is what lead to us not resigning Lindor, not Dolan and minority owners. They actually do not want Lindor to walk and go to another team. They want to resign him, but if the fans aren't supportive, they aren't going to risk staying in the red to resign him if people aren't supporting him.

 

[AZ_]

How do you know they're losing money when they refuse to open their books??

Because every other small market team faces the same reality without exception.

The only defense to this is for you to bring up other teams which reside in larger markets and hold a greater market share (St. Louis being the most common).