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2019 Around the MLB

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The fans are shit for not supporting a World Series team, they deserve it.

The fans will let a dynasty walk out the door because Tuesday is too cold to support the team.

Simply wouldn’t happen for the Browns, who have the benefit of non guaranteed deals and a capped limit that equalizes the rest of the league.

It’s fascinating to watch the difference in tones by fans who don’t understand the economic realities of a team which is better in every way, yet completely less supported by the same city.
The fans sold out every fucking game for 6 years. In Cleveland. Didn't make a difference.

The economic reality is that if ownership was willing to spend competitively, the Indians would have dominated the sport for 10-15 years instead of half that. We saw it once and we are seeing a lesser version of it again. Cleveland supported it the first time, it didn't matter.
 
The fans sold out every fucking game for 6 years. In Cleveland. Didn't make a difference.

The economic reality is that if ownership was willing to spend competitively, the Indians would have dominated the sport for 10-15 years instead of half that. We saw it once and we are seeing a lesser version of it again. Cleveland supported it the first time, it didn't matter.

Every game for six years, in a league that wasn’t handing out $400 million deals and was mostly on a level playing field.

With the full market share of the Cleveland market.

Why wouldn’t the Indians sell out every game for the last four years while being a World Series contender? Because they didn’t sign any big free agents?

The fans in the 90s didn’t show up because of free agency moves and investment in the team.

Signing Dennis Martinez and Orel Hersheiser didn’t get fans to the stadium.


The Indians have BEEN spending competitively and the fans didn’t show up, what do you expect? You’re not even making sense...
 
Every game for six years, in a league that wasn’t handing out $400 million deals and was mostly on a level playing field.

With the full market share of the Cleveland market.

Why wouldn’t the Indians sell out every game for the last four years while being a World Series contender? Because they didn’t sign any big free agents?

The fans in the 90s didn’t show up because of free agency moves and investment in the team.

Signing Dennis Martinez and Orel Hersheiser didn’t get fans to the stadium.


The Indians have BEEN spending competitively and the fans didn’t show up, what do you expect? You’re not even making sense...
The fans showed up in the 90s because the team was great and they didn't know the inevitable, which can simply be summarized as: "enjoy them while you have them"

And having a league average payroll for just a couple years obviously isn't enough.
 
The fans showed up in the 90s because the team was great and they didn't know the inevitable, which can simply be summarized as: "enjoy them while you have them"

And having a league average payroll for just a couple years obviously isn't enough.

The entire logic of Indians fans seems ass backwards.

They have a World Series caliber team in each of the last four years, but DEMAND the team invest in the team in order for them to show up.

Like, why not show up NOW? 2016 through 2019, where were they?


Instead they're pointing to...the 90s? When every meaningful Hall of Fame talent left in their prime without being re-signed?



The entire argument makes not one iota of sense.
 
What evidence is there that if Francisco Lindor were signed to a 12-year, $400M deal tomorrow that the Indians would sell out.

He's ALREADY on the team! And the demand is that they won't support the team until he's re-signed.


This all seems like a lot of "fans yelling at clouds."
 
The entire logic of Indians fans seems ass backwards.

They have a World Series caliber team in each of the last four years, but DEMAND the team invest in the team in order for them to show up.

Like, why not show up NOW? 2016 through 2019, where were they?

Instead they're pointing to...the 90s? When every meaningful Hall of Fame talent left in their prime without being re-signed?

The entire argument makes not one iota of sense.
They were watching on TV, knowing their attendance didn't make a difference before.
 
As difficult as it is to disagree with my own twin brother @Andrew Scheid , I have to side with @AZ_ regarding the role the fans play in the payroll being slashed. I still don’t agree with Dolan cutting back while we’re still in the middle of a contention window, especially when many of the core players are underpaid. However, the fans didn’t uphold their end of the bargain in terms of showing up to the ballpark as the team delivered and payroll was at a franchise high.
 
The fans sold out every fucking game for 6 years. In Cleveland. Didn't make a difference.

The economic reality is that if ownership was willing to spend competitively, the Indians would have dominated the sport for 10-15 years instead of half that. We saw it once and we are seeing a lesser version of it again. Cleveland supported it the first time, it didn't matter.

Jacobs was a different type of owner than the older Dolan was also. Jacobs was also one of the first owners in the modern era who would pay for young players before they hit arbitration and extend them into free agency. Dolan didn't keep up that style of ownership and also didn't draft well, so it really hurt us in the end. Trust me i hated how the Indians were ran and I was very vocal about it

This team actually is run by the younger Dolan and we also have supporting minority owner when it comes to payroll, so they are way more willing to do Jacobs system again hence why a lot of our younger players are signed long term already. If you think about it, most of the core from the last 5-6 years got extended while here in Cleveland and I expect in due time guys like Clev, Bieber, Bauers, etc will get the same type of treatment before/when they hit arbitration years. We have been drafting and developing way better than we were in the early Dolan years and now because they put the money and resources into that, we have a much better organization from top to bottom and its considered one of the best in baseball.

The fans showed up in the 90s because the team was great and they didn't know the inevitable, which can simply be summarized as: "enjoy them while you have them"

And having a league average payroll for just a couple years obviously isn't enough.

Cleveland had a franchise record for payroll in 18, which was 15th, but they had a bottom 15th attendance. Attendance is one of the most important things for bringing in a lot of money. Give them a top 15 in attendance, they bring in around 80-100 mil more in a season based off of numbers. Don't expect any team with a bottom level attendance to keep a top 15 payroll. No ownership runs a business for long when they put out more than they get in, so don't expect a business to do so.

Baseball is also pretty unfair as well, top payroll was 227 Mil, Boston, last season and lowest, 68 Mil, Tampa. Football and basketball there isn't normally gaps like this at all, since the leagues does not allow it. Until there is a min cap and hard top cap, any small market team money wise cannot compete with the big boys. It is not possible and Also you forget to factor in Clevelands market is smaller than it was in the 90s as well. We have less people in Northeastern, Ohio. We get great TV ratings because we still have the 90s fans, but a fair amount of them left when the rustbelt era started as well. We are setting record franchise payrolls in an even smaller market than the 90s was. Dont expect us to be able to keep it up, when the economic gap between the top and the bottom in baseball is so big and our market is smaller than it once was.
 
Yeah Indians fans are bad in not supporting their team in person

But comparing an April Friday night game in San Diego vs. an April Wednesday night game in Cleveland?

images


For what it's worth, the Indians drew 25.5k for Game 4 on Friday night and 26.6k for Game 5 on Saturday night..
 
They were watching on TV, knowing their attendance didn't make a difference before.

If that were true, they wouldn't blame Dolan for it.

The fans get what they get, as I've been saying. If they're not going to support a winner, then there is no chance in hell they're going to have a payroll above the league average.

Again, this all seems to stem from irrational fans with petty grievances against the best team in town. Its fucking wild.
 
Yeah Indians fans are bad in not supporting their team in person

But comparing an April Friday night game in San Diego vs. an April Wednesday night game in Cleveland?

images

This is fair.

That said, the Padres are still going to outdraw them by 10K plus on the first Friday game.

In 2017 (post WS and Edwin), the Indians first Friday game was 25K. Mind you, they were fortunate enough to have 50-degree weather to boot.
 
How do you know they're losing money when they refuse to open their books??

Not to bump this, but:

For what its worth, I still do have quite a few connections to team officials (none of which are in Public Relations). None of them have ever disputed the belief that they're losing money, and they 100 percent have access to P&L's and the financial information that would confirm it.

I'll take them at their word, as they have no reason to lie to me about it.
 
The fans showed up in the 90s because the team was great and they didn't know the inevitable, which can simply be summarized as: "enjoy them while you have them"

And having a league average payroll for just a couple years obviously isn't enough.

So, the fans didn’t show up in 2017 and 2018 because they were too focused on Frankie Lindor’s 2022 contract status? If they’re so in love with him as a ball player, not watching him play in person is quite a peculiar way to express their appreciation.
 
This is fair.

That said, the Padres are still going to outdraw them by 10K plus on the first Friday game.

In 2017 (post WS and Edwin), the Indians first Friday game was 25K. Mind you, they were fortunate enough to have 50-degree weather to boot.

Yup, I edited those numbers in.

I think we are on a similar wavelength with the Dolan's hands being somewhat tied by a fanbase not holding up their end of the bargain on a team that has won an average of 96 games for the past 3 years.

But are you not at all upset with ownership to cut back payroll approximately $20m coming off those past 3 seasons, with 2 MVP caliber players and the best rotation in baseball? If they aren't willing to spend money now, when will they? Why keep the team if you are losing money every year?

And I'm not naive enough to be expecting them to make big splashes like AJ Pollock, but there were quite a few players (Adam Jones, Sergio Romo, etc.) that signed very cheap 1 year deals.

I'm sure things (fan's perspective of the Dolans) will only get uglier next year after attendance drops once more and further cuts are made when Bauer and Lindor see another raise in arbitration.
 
If that were true, they wouldn't blame Dolan for it.

The fans get what they get, as I've been saying. If they're not going to support a winner, then there is no chance in hell they're going to have a payroll above the league average.

Again, this all seems to stem from irrational fans with petty grievances against the best team in town. Its fucking wild.
But...they don't get what they get. The fans supported the team before and it simply didn't matter. We can sit here all day and pretend it'd be different this time, but there's no reason to believe that.

Regardless of what side of the fence you sit on, it's clear nothing will change at this point. The fans will not support Dolan's product because they think/know he will not invest that support back into his team. Dolan will not invest in his team because he thinks/knows the fans will not support his product.

We can keep doing this stupid dance for another 20 years, or Dolan could just fucking sell the team.
 

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