2019 Cavs

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

Yeah the only thinking is if we get him on a cheap deal. Where Nance stands right now, we would be paying him on potential.

I think Nance is a nice player regardless of whether he reaches his potential or not. Depends how much the team values his role and production on what I believe should be a rebuilding team. He currently doesn't have a real position as a Starter..

If he doesn't grow as a player, he quickly falls into the same category alot of PFs who have washed out of the league have. Without a 3 point shot and the durability to play center full time, he becomes hard to play and pay.

I disagree here. I don't believe Nance is the kind of player that wille ever wash out of the league. He impact the game even when he doesn't put up big stats. HE will always have role that he can excel at off the bench if he doesn't reach his full potential.

Unless we are paying him like a 4th big in our rotation, I would hold off on an extension. Especially with Love's extension, how can we say Nance is our starting PF of the future if Love is locked up for 5 years.

the Love extension kinda complicated things. It's a big extension.

That's true about being a starter...if Love is locked up for so long, Nance to me looks like a bench player for the foreseeable future unless they think of him as a starting Center, which I gotta say that I don't like.

By the time Love is off the team, Nance will have "lost" one of his biggest assets, his athleticism.

I don't understand the logic here and what we are trying to do.

Anyways, the risk factors are that a team might decide to overpay for Nance just to fuck with us because they know we will match or some shit like that.

 

[Nathan S]

Yeah the only thinking is if we get him on a cheap deal. Where Nance stands right now, we would be paying him on potential. If he doesn't grow as a player, he quickly falls into the same category alot of PFs who have washed out of the league have. Without a 3 point shot and the durability to play center full time, he becomes hard to play and pay.

Unless we are paying him like a 4th big in our rotation, I would hold off on an extension. Especially with Love's extension, how can we say Nance is our starting PF of the future if Love is locked up for 5 years.

I think you have a flawed concept of what a typical starting 5 looks like in the modern NBA.

Say the minimum benchmarks for a traditional, durable, starting center are 8 rebounds per game, 1.5 blocks per game, 6'11" tall, and at least 60 games played. Last year, only three players hit those benchmarks: Embiid, Howard, and Drummond. And of those three, only Embiid is reliably a positive-impact player.

If our doctors give Nance a clean bill of health, there's every reason to expect him to continue his solid production in starting role next to Love next year.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

I think you have a flawed concept of what a typical starting 5 looks like in the modern NBA.

Say the minimum benchmarks for a traditional, durable, starting center are 8 rebounds per game, 1.5 blocks per game, 6'11" tall, and at least 60 games played. Last year, only three players hit those benchmarks: Embiid, Howard, and Drummond. And of those three, only Embiid is reliably a positive-impact player.

If our doctors give Nance a clean bill of health, there's every reason to expect him to continue his solid production in starting role next to Love next year.

But you dont understand that he can't keep it up playing starter minutes.

You are strictly looking at it from a statistical point of view which is also flawed, and to make matters worse you are using Per 36 numbers, and in his case, they are not truly reflective.

For him to be able to play starter minutes at Center he is going not need to bulk up which will hurt some other parts of his game. There is no way around it.

He should play PF with a big Center that can actually play starter minutes and dominate that position on both ends.

 

[Nathan S]

But you dont understand that he can't keep it up playing starter minutes.

You are strictly looking at it from a statistical point of view which is also flawed, and to make matters worse you are using Per 36 numbers, and in his case, they are not truly reflective.

For him to be able to play starter minutes at Center he is going not need to bulk up which will hurt some other parts of his game. There is no way around it.

He should play PF with a big Center that can actually play starter minutes and dominate that position on both ends.

What do you mean he "can't"? Most players can make the jump from ~20 to ~30 minutes per game without incident. Of course, some don't. Unless team doctors give us a specific medical reason why he will be unable to handle a larger workload, I don't understand why we should feel pessimistic about his chances. I mean, we just played Love, who's even smaller and has far worse injury issues, at center for basically a whole season.

I wouldn't mind playing Nance at PF either...the problem is it's hard to find big centers who don't suck. Maybe Zizic can be that guy, but thanks to Lue we didn't really get a good look at him last year, so I'm tempering my expectations for now.

 

[inliner311]

I think you have a flawed concept of what a typical starting 5 looks like in the modern NBA.

Say the minimum benchmarks for a traditional, durable, starting center are 8 rebounds per game, 1.5 blocks per game, 6'11" tall, and at least 60 games played. Last year, only three players hit those benchmarks: Embiid, Howard, and Drummond. And of those three, only Embiid is reliably a positive-impact player.

If our doctors give Nance a clean bill of health, there's every reason to expect him to continue his solid production in starting role next to Love next year.

My question with Nance isn't that he can't achieve the stats or impact that a starting center in the NBA should average. My concern is really about the long term or even full season durability with Nance to actually play center. We saw last season that he could play center when healthy but he wasn't able to stay healthy while doing it.

That's why I would hold off with an extension. Let him either show he can be durable enough playing center for a whole season or he can extend his range and have a consistent 3 point shot so he can play PF. I think both of these will dictate how many minutes he can play and how much we should pay.

I don't doubt Nance could play 28-30 minutes a game at PF and stay healthy. How many minutes can he play at center while staying healthy and keep his explosiveness? I don't think any really knows yet.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

What do you mean he "can't"? Most players can make the jump from ~20 to ~30 minutes per game without incident. Of course, some don't. Unless team doctors give us a specific medical reason why he will be unable to handle a larger workload, I don't understand why we should feel pessimistic about his chances. I mean, we just played Love, who's even smaller and has far worse injury issues, at center for basically a whole season.

I wouldn't mind playing Nance at PF either...the problem is it's hard to find big centers who don't suck. Maybe Zizic can be that guy, but thanks to Lue we didn't really get a good look at him last year, so I'm tempering my expectations for now.

He is a player that gets his production by shear hustle , by being more energetic and even athletic than others. Do you think he can keep it up playing 30+ minutes a game 82 games a year? I don't. It will get tougher for him to fight with guys down low, contest shots, get rebounds and run the floor as much as he normally does...his athleticism declines as the workload increases...we have seen this last season.

Love's contract and situation is not the barometer here. Overpaying for him doesn't make feel better if we overpay for Nance. It's not that I feel pessimistic about his chances, it's just that I don't wanna pay him based on potential. Currently, I think he is a 6th man...I don't want to pay him starter money when he is a RFA and doesn't necessarily have a big market.

 

[Nathan S]

My question with Nance isn't that he can't achieve the stats or impact that a starting center in the NBA should average. My concern is really about the long term or even full season durability with Nance to actually play center. We saw last season that he could play center when healthy but he wasn't able to stay healthy while doing it.

That's why I would hold off with an extension. Let him either show he can be durable enough playing center for a whole season or he can extend his range and have a consistent 3 point shot so he can play PF. I think both of these will dictate how many minutes he can play and how much we should pay.

I don't doubt Nance could play 28-30 minutes a game at PF and stay healthy. How many minutes can he play at center while staying healthy and keep his explosiveness? I don't think any really knows yet.

I think this is reading too much into what may have just been a run-of-the-mill hamstring injury. He hasn't missed an unusual amount of games to injury so far in his career, so if doctors say he's healthy, I don't think it makes sense to be too paranoid about it when thinking about his future.

He is a player that gets his production by shear hustle , by being more energetic and even athletic than others. Do you think he can keep it up playing 30+ minutes a game 82 games a year? I don't. It will get tougher for him to fight with guys down low, contest shots, get rebounds and run the floor as much as he normally does...his athleticism declines as the workload increases...we have seen this last season.

Love's contract and situation is not the barometer here. Overpaying for him doesn't make feel better if we overpay for Nance. It's not that I feel pessimistic about his chances, it's just that I don't wanna pay him based on potential. Currently, I think he is a 6th man...I don't want to pay him starter money when he is a RFA and doesn't necessarily have a big market.

30+ is tough...there are very few starting centers who average much more than 30 minutes per game, and most of them are highly skilled guys like Towns, Gasol, and Jokic. I'd expect him to average somewhere in the 28-30 minute per game range, which is right around league average for a starting center. If he's healthy, he should be able to ramp up his minutes to that range without a significant dropoff in per-minute production, I think.

 

[Alec]

LNJ will likely never be a starter on a good team. He’s probably not a 6th man on a great team. He’s a rotation big who has clear deficiencies to his game. The org has to decide where a player with his skill-set and personality fits on a rebuilding team. 10+ mil over multiple years is a significant commitment to a cultural piece. Or is it? With the cap increasing the way it has

This is where the 3 and 5 year plans need pieced together by the front office. I’m not really sure Koby has those

 

[avs2000]

LNJ will likely never be a starter on a good team. He’s probably not a 6th man on a great team. He’s a rotation big who has clear deficiencies to his game. The org has to decide where a player with his skill-set and personality fits on a rebuilding team. 10+ mil over multiple years is a significant commitment to a cultural piece. Or is it? With the cap increasing the way it has

This is where the 3 and 5 year plans need pieced together by the front office. I’m not really sure Koby has those

I don’t think anyone has a 5 year plan in the nba to many moving parts. Who had planned for Irving to request a trade out of the blue. Injuries. Etc. 5 years ?

 

[Alec]

I don’t think anyone has a 5 year plan in the nba to many moving parts. Who had planned for Irving to request a trade out of the blue. Injuries. Etc. 5 years ?

Plans with regards to assets that are under the team’s control, if nothing else

 

[red.]

Clarkson has been working out with Drew Hanlen.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BksxHtZBY4X/?hl=en

 

[UncleDrew]

Rodney Hood deserves to be signed for being 6'8 I guess? Cause he sucks at everything else.

I feel Hood didn't get a good enough chance to show what he can do. Still pissed he took himself out of a game last season.

 

[TitleTown]

I feel Hood didn't get a good enough chance to show what he can do. Still pissed he took himself out of a game last season.

You might be right...

Or...he showed us exactly who he is as a player...both on and off the court.

 

[stowfan]

I would like to see the Cavs sign Greg Monroe. If history holds true, Kevin Love should miss at least 20 games. The Cavs could use some depth when it comes to rebounding.

 

[Cavatt]

I would like to see the Cavs sign Greg Monroe. If history holds true, Kevin Love should miss at least 20 games. The Cavs could use some depth when it comes to rebounding.

Hell no. We have Zizic and TT with Frye